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Old 11-30-2008, 10:24 PM   #1
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Default What being a sennin means....

Most people make the mistake of thinking that sennin is a class of shinobi or something like a jounin, etc. Others think that it means to be a sage, a wise ninja made of experience and/or posses powers that far surpass others.

If you think that, it is completly wrong

There is the definition of sennin at this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennin

Notice what it means to be a sennin:
The Japanese term sennin is a loanword from Chinese xiānrén 仙人 "immortal person", known also as xian "immortal; transcendent; genie; mage; jdinn; sage; hermit" in Daoism.

let's just skip "genie"; "mage", "jdinn", "sage". And we are left with 3 words:hermit, immortal, transcendent.

We will take each word

1) Hermit
For me it basically means someone who is very isolated and works alone. Or someone who have reached a certain point where they specialise in something that defines them.
This could be true, but Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru travel a lot and have had a lot of contact with people. So the first half is gone.
Second is also a no because they don't exactly specialise in only their definening traits, they do other things as well, so they don't only specialise in their summoned animal abilities. So they are not sennin.

2) Immortal
The answer is obvious, though Orochimaru has, to a certain degree, gained immortality, he, Jiraiya, Tsunade were considered sennin before that. They might be the closest representation to what it looks like to be immortal(because they are famous worldwide and their power is as great as a kage), but they are just like other people, mortal.

3) Transcendent
My guess is that this is the actual meaning to the title of sennin.
It means someone who has gained a certain understanding of the world and everything around him. In a word, someone who has gained a Revelation or has reached a level of enlightenment, and have thus gained a power that is beyond human understanding.
This is why the first Rin'negan user is considered a sennin. He transcendent the realm of normal human mind and used his unique trait to forge a new world.
Naruto is slowly gaining this transcendent. So Naruto is becoming the first sennin since the begining of the ninja world.

What do you think?


Last edited by Shadow_fox; 12-02-2008 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:25 PM   #2
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Good topic, other than a few typos and such.

I guess you could argue that they were hermits for leaving Konoha and living relatively alone, but I think transcendental stuff is the most likely too.

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Old 11-30-2008, 11:32 PM   #3
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Weren't Oro, Tsunade, and Jiraiya called the Sannin, not sennin? Typo? If not, point me to the manga page.

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Old 11-30-2008, 11:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow_fox View Post
Most people make the mistake of thinking that sennin is a class of shinobi or something like a jounin, etc. Others think that it means to be a sage, a wise ninja made of experience and/or posses powers that far surpass others.

If you think that, it is completly wrong

There is the definition of sennin at this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennin

Notice what it means to be a sennin:
The Japanese term sennin is a loanword from Chinese xiānrén 仙人 "immortal person", known also as xian "immortal; transcendent; genie; mage; jdinn; sage; hermit" in Daoism.

let's just skip "genie"; "mage", "jdinn", "sage". And we are left with 3 words:hermit, immortal, transcendent.

We will take each word

1) Hermit
For me it basically means someone who is very isolated and works alone, but is isolated from the world. Or someone who have reached a certain point where they specialise in something that defies them.
This could be true, but Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru travel a lot and have had a lot of contact with people. So the first half is gone.
Second is also a no because they don't exactly specialise in only their definening traits. So they are not sennin.

2) Immortal
The answer is obvious, though Orochimaru has, to a certain degree, gained immortality, he, Jiraiya, Tsunade were considered sennin before that. They might be the closest representation to what it looks like to be immortal, but they are just like other people.

3) Transcendent
My guess is that this is the actual meaning to the title of sennin.
It means someone who has gained a certain understanding of the world and everything around him. In a word, someone who has gained a Revelation .
This is why the first Rin'negan user is considered a sennin. He transcendent the realm of normal human mind and used his unique trait to forge a new world.
Naruto is slowly gaining this transcendent. So Naruto is becoming the first sennin since the begining of the ninja world.

What do you think?
Jiraiya is the only "Sennin" of the Sannin, other such Sennin are the Ni Dai Sennin (Ma and Pa toad.)

Orochimaru, Tsunade and Jiraiya make up the Sannin which is also not a rank but a title. I believe in full they were the "Densetsu no Sannin."

Now Sannin simply means "three ninja."

San-three
nin- ninja (same as nindo (ninja way) ninjutsu (ninja techniques) etc.)

Now my Japanese is awful, but I believe Densetsu no Sannin means something like "The Three Legendary Ninja" which is the title Hanzou gave to them for surviving.

In summary, Orochimaru and Tsunade weren't Sennin.

Now Jiraiya was a Sennin, in the hermit meaning of the word, because we know at least once has he retreated from civilisation (to train with the toads) he was also a sennin in regards to Konoha because he was away for a long time.

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Old 12-01-2008, 12:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragormha View Post
Jiraiya is the only "Sennin" of the Sannin, other such Sennin are the Ni Dai Sennin (Ma and Pa toad.)

Orochimaru, Tsunade and Jiraiya make up the Sannin which is also not a rank but a title. I believe in full they were the "Densetsu no Sannin."

Now Sannin simply means "three ninja."

San-three
nin- ninja (same as nindo (ninja way) ninjutsu (ninja techniques) etc.)

Now my Japanese is awful, but I believe Densetsu no Sannin means something like "The Three Legendary Ninja" which is the title Hanzou gave to them for surviving.

In summary, Orochimaru and Tsunade weren't Sennin.

Now Jiraiya was a Sennin, in the hermit meaning of the word, because we know at least once has he retreated from civilisation (to train with the toads) he was also a sennin in regards to Konoha because he was away for a long time.
What he said. As for what i think about Naruto becoming a sennin. He is aquiring the power, but i would like to see him in more self-reflective moments so that he could display that he also has the MIND SET of a sennin.

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Old 12-01-2008, 12:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragormha View Post
Jiraiya is the only "Sennin" of the Sannin, other such Sennin are the Ni Dai Sennin (Ma and Pa toad.)

Orochimaru, Tsunade and Jiraiya make up the Sannin which is also not a rank but a title. I believe in full they were the "Densetsu no Sannin."

Now Sannin simply means "three ninja."

San-three
nin- ninja (same as nindo (ninja way) ninjutsu (ninja techniques) etc.)

Now my Japanese is awful, but I believe Densetsu no Sannin means something like "The Three Legendary Ninja" which is the title Hanzou gave to them for surviving.

In summary, Orochimaru and Tsunade weren't Sennin.

Now Jiraiya was a Sennin, in the hermit meaning of the word, because we know at least once has he retreated from civilisation (to train with the toads) he was also a sennin in regards to Konoha because he was away for a long time.
pretty much

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Old 12-02-2008, 05:31 PM   #7
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There is a huge difference, it's not a typo, there is a huge difference between sennin and sannin.
"sannin" means "three", like in "The three great ninja".
"Sennin" means something like a sage, you have the translation above.

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Old 12-02-2008, 06:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most people make the mistake of thinking that sennin is a class of shinobi or something like a jounin, etc. Others think that it means to be a sage, a wise ninja made of experience and/or posses powers that far surpass others.

If you think that, it is completly wrong

There is the definition of sennin at this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennin

Notice what it means to be a sennin:
The Japanese term sennin is a loanword from Chinese xiānrén 仙人 "immortal person", known also as xian "immortal; transcendent; genie; mage; jdinn; sage; hermit" in Daoism.

let's just skip "genie"; "mage", "jdinn", "sage". And we are left with 3 words:hermit, immortal, transcendent.
lol yes lets just skip and ignore anything that doesnt go in line with your point

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Old 12-02-2008, 07:21 PM   #9
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SANNIN,not SENNIN (Hermit).
Sannin,3 Legendary Ninja,as some1 above nicely explained means nothing else than that. 3 Legendary Ninja warriors that stood up to Hanzo (praised as unbeatable at the time). Hanzo also gave them this title as he considered them 3 "the most powerfull ninja he ever fought. He also assumed that Konoha would win the struggle against him and his village (if he had one,im not exactly sure and i'll admit it,i know very little about him),and in return for sparing their lives,they would have to honor him by calling themselves Sannin,'till the rest of their lives.

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Old 12-02-2008, 07:35 PM   #10
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Naruto kept calling Jiraiya ero sennin or sth like that, which would tell us that Jiraiya actually was a hermit.

Jiraiya went to the mountains ( isolating oneself from civilization ) to have a greater understanding ( not power only way of thinking ) This would actually make him a Sennin(hermit)

But they are called Sannin not Sennin. Only Jiraiya was a Sennin among them.

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Old 12-02-2008, 07:40 PM   #11
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sannin = three people, not necessarily three ninja. ~nin is a counter for people starting with three. However, it works on both levels here.

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Old 12-02-2008, 07:43 PM   #12
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Nice topic and evaluation. (Other than typo's)

Keep it up.

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Old 12-02-2008, 08:47 PM   #13
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Sennin is like a sage. J-man. Wasn't he the only sennin? Sannin and sennin are diffrent right?

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