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Old 10-14-2007, 03:48 PM   #1
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Default Rinnegan vs. Sharingan, Pain vs. Madara

Sorry if this thread has been created before, but it's just a thought I came up with.

If the Rinnegan is the best doujutsu, would that make Pain better than Madara? But from the one scene I remember Madara giving him orders instead... Or does the evolving capabilities of the Sharingan make it better than Rinnegan?

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Old 10-14-2007, 03:54 PM   #2
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The "most powerful" line was a mistranslation. Jiraiya actually just said that the Rinnegan is the most "illustrious", "noble", "sublime", "lofty", etc. doujutsu.

It's made fairly clear whose in charge from 363 and 364. Take NJT's translation of 363
Pain: So... How was Sasuke?

[Madara]: Not bad at all. He made extremely good use of his Sharingan. Those eyes will be better than Itachi's. The time is ripe. You can bet he's prepared himself, as it won't be long now

Pain: So it's time to get the kyuubi?

[Madara]: You do it. As you are their leader, I won't accept failure.
In 364, Madara just tells Pain to be weary of Naruto and gives another order:
Madara: That'll be all. Have the other members pick up the pace in their hunt for the remaining Jinchuuriki.
He's also twice called the "mastermind" behind Akatsuki in the sidetext.

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Old 10-14-2007, 03:57 PM   #3
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The Rin'negan is probably a better eye than the Sharingan, hence its greater illustriousness. However, that does not mean every Rin-negan user is stronger than every Sharingan user.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:15 PM   #4
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Sharingan has dominated virtually the entire manga, plotwise, while Rin'negan just recently made its impromptu, half-thought-out, thrown-together appearance a chapter or two ago... Think about it, if the Rin'negan is such an "illustrious" bloodline, then why didn't Kishi find it important, or "illustrious," enough to mention before now??? He's clearly spent considerably more time developing the Sharingan than he has the Rin'negan, so apparently he deems the Sharingan to be of more importance; and this greater significance will undoubtedly translate into greater power, than that of the other two eye techniques, within the manga itself.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:20 PM   #5
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I think is Madara strikes down Pein it'll be when Pein is on the his last legs already.

Of course I thought the same about the AL getting Orochimaru

I am, however, sure Madara doesn't dominate Pein. Pein is obeying him for now because he needs him.

But you saw the way Pein talked. He believes himself a God. Gods don't plan to be a servant for eternity.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
[Madara]: You do it. As you are their leader, I won't accept failure.
This line right here says it all for me

1) Madara gives Pein a direct command

2) Madara excludes himself regular Akatsuki membership and makes it clear that Pein isn't in charge of him to the readers

3) "I won't accept faliure" - does that really need an explanation?

And yah, he's been called the mastermind twice, and this is shonen manga.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odlam View Post
This line right here says it all for me

1) Madara gives Pein a direct command

2) Madara refers to Pein as "thier leader" - meaning Pein commands the Akatsuki flunkies, but Madara excludes himself from that group

3) "I won't accept faliure" - does that really need an explanation?

And yah, he's been called the mastermind twice, and this is shonen manga.
Although it should be noted Pein didn't quiver or quake. He got pissed while keeping his cool.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Blood-Fire Phoenix View Post
Sharingan has dominated virtually the entire manga, plotwise, while Rin'negan just recently made its impromptu, half-thought-out, thrown-together appearance a chapter or two ago... Think about it, if the Rin'negan is such an "illustrious" bloodline, then why didn't Kishi find it important, or "illustrious," enough to mention before now??? He's clearly spent considerably more time developing the Sharingan than he has the Rin'negan, so apparently he deems the Sharingan to be of more importance; and this greater significance will undoubtedly translate into greater power, than that of the other two eye techniques, within the manga itself.
Your arugment on the Rin'negan's potential and importance to the story being less then the Sharingan is weak. Pein's character and that of his eyes were being foreshadowed since Part I, held back and weren't revealed until recently.

Just because the Rin'negan in the story is newer then teh Sharingan doesn't devolve it's importance. And side-text is unimportant, such as Madara being called a genius or mastermind since those are written by the editors of Shonen Jump.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:31 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Pink Ninja View Post
Although it should be noted Pein didn't quiver or quake. He got pissed while keeping his cool.
He expressed his emotions through the weather

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Blood-Fire Phoenix View Post
Sharingan has dominated virtually the entire manga, plotwise, while Rin'negan just recently made its impromptu, half-thought-out, thrown-together appearance a chapter or two ago... Think about it, if the Rin'negan is such an "illustrious" bloodline, then why didn't Kishi find it important, or "illustrious," enough to mention before now??? He's clearly spent considerably more time developing the Sharingan than he has the Rin'negan, so apparently he deems the Sharingan to be of more importance; and this greater significance will undoubtedly translate into greater power, than that of the other two eye techniques, within the manga itself.
I don't think it works that way.

To me, the Rinnegan is the beginning and end of the world and the Sharingan and Byakugan are the eyes that see in between. Think of it this way. The Sharingan and the main plot of the story are the main course of a meal. The Rinnegan is the dessert. It doesn't have to be a part of the main dish, it just has to be good enough to top everything. That's why I think Pain is getting all this ridiculous hype. He'll be in the climax, and we can't have a sucky person in that position.

Anyhow. The Rinnegan's power is self-evident. There is only one, known user in the world yet he is stronger than perhaps ninety-nine percent of every Sharingan and Byakugan user that have ever lived. I doubt Pain's going to do something self-destructive to the plot like killing Tobi, but after listening to his plans and rereading Jiraiya's description of the eye, I know they're going to have some kind of conflict soon, like Pink said. I think Tobi's purpose is too kick up Sasuke or Kakashi for the final clash that includes Naruto and either the Kyūbi or the Ultimate Kinjutsu with the last Akatsuki members being the propagators of the event.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:45 PM   #11
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obviously you cannot introduce everything and everyone of importance in the first chapter for it to be powerful, that is a sad excuse.

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:58 PM   #12
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its obvious Rinnegan is the most powerful eye technique. given the experience that pein has through his lifetime, its evident that he has developed his eye technique to at least a mediocre level to high level... otherwise he would not be the leader...
its silly to stay any other eye technique is stronger when the author of the manga said so..
I think the author knows more than anyone in this forum..

people are so silly making speculations in this forum about characters. For the longest time people were thinking the leader was naruto's father or brother or some shit like that with no evidence other than what is coming out of their ass

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Old 10-14-2007, 04:59 PM   #13
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This forum lacks.... patience.

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Old 10-14-2007, 05:03 PM   #14
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just becouse jiraya didint say that rinnegan was > sharingan directly does not mean that rinnegan is < sharingan.

we have to wait and see.

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Old 10-14-2007, 05:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Uchiha Q View Post
just becouse jiraya didint say that rinnegan was > sharingan directly does not mean that rinnegan is < sharingan.

we have to wait and see.
he didn't say it's the strongest doujutsu either.

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Old 10-14-2007, 05:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odlam View Post
This line right here says it all for me

1) Madara gives Pein a direct command
More like he was answering Pain's question.

Quote:
2) Madara excludes himself regular Akatsuki membership and makes it clear that Pein isn't in charge of him to the readers
You're right, but that doesn't make him the leader either, as he tells Pain is their leader, not him.

Quote:
3) "I won't accept faliure" - does that really need an explanation?
Would you accept failure for a major plan?

Quote:
And yah, he's been called the mastermind twice, and this is shonen manga.
A mastermind is the person who thinks up the idea. It doesn't automatically make him stronger.

On a side note, the Rin'negan is said to be the Tool of God, while the Sharingan is just the copy-wheel eye.

Tool of God vs. Copy-Wheel Eye.

Take your pick.

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Old 10-14-2007, 06:08 PM   #17
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I guess you could say the Rin'negan is science because it creates and the sharingan is history since it copies. So that would make the byakugan... what?

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Old 10-14-2007, 06:11 PM   #18
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you could name a jutsuu throbing penis of god, or you can name a jutsuu right hand win of god...name means nothing, just because it has the word god in it does not make it more powerful, it was named by someone who wanted to impress someone else.

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Old 10-14-2007, 06:31 PM   #19
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As of right now we can't tell who is stronger, or which eye is stronger....we will just have to wait.

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Old 10-14-2007, 06:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyros View Post
More like he was answering Pain's question.



You're right, but that doesn't make him the leader either, as he tells Pain is their leader, not him.



Would you accept failure for a major plan?



A mastermind is the person who thinks up the idea. It doesn't automatically make him stronger.

On a side note, the Rin'negan is said to be the Tool of God, while the Sharingan is just the copy-wheel eye.

Tool of God vs. Copy-Wheel Eye.

Take your pick.
Although I sorta agree with the rest of your post, I have to argue with the "Copy-Wheel Eye" part. It's not only that anymore... It's an eye that can distort space and time, and do more incredible things than just copy jutsus and read movements.

However, I still have a feeling that although the Rinnegan may be stronger or have better abilities, perhaps just more god-like abilities, it is fodder, while the Sharingan is not.

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