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Old 05-22-2012, 09:13 PM   #1
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:26 PM   #2
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If Sasuke starts out this fight like fight like he did against A, then he's gonna get sliced in half. Rib Cage Susano'o isn't tanking 1 Finger Nukite. Susano'o seems to have a slight weakness to piercing attacks, as we saw with Danzo slicing an opening in V3 Susano'o with concentrated Fuuton.

If Sasuke starts with V4 Susano'o.....well the Raikage's fucked. Ammy spamming combined with Enton is a CQC fighter's living hell. Eventually, Ammy and Susano'o-Arrows and such will wear The 3rd out untill Sasuke can just overwhelm him.

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Old 05-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #3
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3rd Raikage possibly puts the worse ass whooping ever to be put on an Uchiha in history, oh what a glorious day it would be.

Tsukuyomi- Useless
Amaterasu- Useless
Susanoo- Useless

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Old 05-22-2012, 09:52 PM   #4
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sasuke takes it rather easily. the 3rd has only shown a v1 shroud, which means hes likely not dodging amaterasu.

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Old 05-22-2012, 10:46 PM   #5
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With manga knowledge and and in character mindset, they are bound to feel each other out. The Sandaime Raikage may know a thing or two about Uchihas and may have even encountered the Mangekyo, while Sasuke will recognize Raiton no Yoroi. I seriously doubt that genjutsu will be much use here, be it for one reason or another, and I also doubt Kirin will come into play (I suspect the match will be decided long before Sasuke decides to use it and then preps it).

They pretty much have to charge at each other, and what is bound to happen is pretty much what happened in the manga with Sasuke and Ei, except this time Sasuke won't stay still after landing the Chidori that I do not believe will be so much as scratching the Raikage. After that point, he will know he needs the Mangekyo, although he may end up finding himself surprised by some mid ranged black lightning attacks and follow ups. But I think he can survive that, even if it takes Susano'o.

He will know better than to use merely the ribcage form of Susano'o, but whether he uses bone form of full form (I doubt he would strain himself trying to use the armored form), it won't make a difference defensively. The Raikage won't be able to penetrate with brute force, and will be forced to use Nukite while Sasuke may want to try arrows. However, arrows can probably be dodged by someone of the Raikage's speed and tanked if he catches one in surprise.

Amaterasu in Sasuke's only real shot here, and that loses a not inconsiderable amount of effectiveness if the Raikage has faced it before. But that would be a big assumption, so we won't go there in any depth. A lot comes down to whether he can turtle up in Susano'o, and prep Amaterasu before the Raikage uses Nukite and pierces right through to tag a shocked Sasuke (if he uses the full form, he may need two fingers; heck, maybe even one for armored version).

If he can, a lot again comes down to whether the Raikage is already moving at high speeds (well, in a direction that is not linear towards Sasuke), in which case Sasuke probably can't tag him. But I don't believe he can dodge Amaterasu standing still, and if he feels threatened enough, he may used the shield of Amaterasu. And then it comes down to whether the chakra of Nukite can push aside the flames before reaching Susano'o.

If Sasuke tags him but can't keep his eye properly focused on him because of the speed of his movement (a very real possibility), the flames will burn slower and the Raikage can cut his arm off later, but probably won't have to right away given his superior durability. It is also possible that he may be hit or the flames will spread in a place he can't cut off, which could very well result in a double KO if he gets Sasuke and then succumbs to the flames.

Edited to acknowledge that certain arguments have persuaded me to alter my vote: There are lot of ifs in this scenario but I think it will end up resulting 7 times out of ten in the Raikage's favor with high difficulty and will resolve another 2 times out of ten as a draw.


Last edited by SubtleObscurantist; 05-23-2012 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 05-22-2012, 10:59 PM   #6
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Amaterasu could win this, I'm not sure he could dodge it since he only showed V1, and SM Naruto dodged him quite easily.

Amaterasu keeps burning for like...ever, so he's definetely not gonna get off that easily.

He's likely a good deal stronger than A, considering how A is weaker than Tsunade physically, but A's attacks were like fleabites to Stage 2 Susanoo, which doesn't even have an armor, so with Stage 4 that does have a doble armor, it can likely safe Sasuke long enough to land an Amaterasu. Besides, Sasuke can engulf his Susanoo with Amaterasu, which will make Raikage's attempt of hurting him meaningless, as he'll be caught on fire, and can be an easier pray to Sasuke's Amaterasu.

So I say Sasuke takes it High difficulty.

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Old 05-22-2012, 11:07 PM   #7
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Classic Mangekyō underestimation.





He can certainly grab the v1 cloak and then use Amaterasu, although Amaterasu would hit the v1 cloak unassisted given the above image, and Mangekyō genjutsu would also work unassisted.

The idea that the Kages are immune was based off of a bad translation. Gaara and A and Minato and everybody else have been looking at the Sharingan, but Sasuke, Madara, and Tobi pass it up.

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Old 05-22-2012, 11:19 PM   #8
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What would Sasuke's Amaterasu do to Sandaime Raikage exactly?

Several samurai had Amaterasu burning on them for an elongated period of time but survived with no serious injuries. A's arm was afflicted by Amaterasu, and showed no immediate form of trauma (Until he amputated it).

Sandaime Raikge's Raiton-shrouded body received a direct hit from Sage Mode Futon: Rasenshuriken, something powerful enough to shred Human Path into nothingness ([scan]), yet was left completely in-tact.

I'm not seeing how Amaterasu, an attack that people with far less durability have survived, is going to destroy Sandaime Raikage (If it even harms him at all) before Sasuke's overuse of Mangekyou Sharingan takes it toll on him.

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Old 05-22-2012, 11:25 PM   #9
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You're not making the distinction between Amaterasu and the black flame. Amaterasu is the release. One is the technique. The other is the material. The technique instantly kills the Cerberus and incinerates fireproof flesh. The material burns clothing and steel and trees at normal rate for fire.

The difference between Amaterasu and black flames is the same difference between the Rasenshuriken and a powerful breeze. The technique is what makes the element so dangerous: not the element itself. However, the blaze element is a heightened element, and does have one special property: it's inextinguishable.

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Old 05-22-2012, 11:30 PM   #10
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The 3rd Raikage probably cannot dodge Amaterasu, and has no other counters to it. He gets hit by Amaterasu in all likelyhood and eventually succumbs to it, but it will take a while due to his insane durability.

Sasuke can dodge his linear attacks (the rubber guy did as well) a few times, but the 3rd Raikage should still be a speed tier or more above Sasuke so if Sasuke does not use Susano to protect himself he will eventually be overwhelmed in CQC.

One of the biggest questions here is whether or not his Finger Nukite can pierce Susano. I suspect that it can't, but we never saw the upwards limit on the Jutsu.

I think Sasuke Amaterasu's him, hides behind Susano for a few minutes, and the 3rd then dies (or weakens to the point Susano is no longer needed and then the 3rd dies). The Raikage might be able to overwhelm Sasuke at close range with Sasuke's lack of knowledge. There is also the possibility of a tie with the Raikage getting hit by Amaterasu, later dying by it, but not before Sasuke dies (either of exhaustion related to Susano over use or the 3rd destroying him).

I'll say Sasuke wins 5/10, the 3rd wins 2/10, and they both die 3/10.

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Old 05-22-2012, 11:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
You're not making the distinction between Amaterasu and the black flame. Amaterasu is the release. One is the technique. The other is the material. The technique instantly kills the Cerberus and incinerates fireproof flesh. The material burns clothing and steel and trees at normal rate for fire.

The difference between Amaterasu and black flames is the same difference between the Rasenshuriken and a powerful breeze. The technique is what makes the element so dangerous: not the element itself. However, the blaze element is a heightened element, and does have one special property: it is inextinguishable.
I'm not sure about that, as it's never really stated in the Manga.

Amaterasu did directly hit Nagato, and even with his frail body, he wasn't incinerated before he fell to the ground and mangened to get off an ST. The Samurai also took a direct hit, and his armor survived.

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Old 05-22-2012, 11:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
You're not making the distinction between Amaterasu and the black flame. Amaterasu is the release. One is the technique. The other is the material. The technique instantly kills the Cerberus and incinerates fireproof flesh. The material burns clothing and steel and trees at normal rate for fire.
1) I don't recall such a distinction ever being made. Could you please post a scan of that statement? If what you were saying was true, then the so-called 'release' still should've instantly killed Karin and the samurai, yet it didn't.

2) All of those feats you've listed are attributes of Itachi's Amaterasu, not Sasuke's. Since he's the one fighting Sandaime Raikage in this thread, his Amaterasu feats should be used, not Itachi's. We've seen Mangekyou Sharingan techniques differ from person-to-person. Itachi's Susanoo possesses Yata's mirrow and Totsuka, while Sasuke's possesses a bow and arrow. In addition, Sasuke doesn't even appear to be able to utilize Tsukiyomi (At least, not on the level that Itachi can). It should not be assumed that Sasuke's Amaterasu is equivalent to Itachi's, especially when feats suggest otherwise.

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Old 05-22-2012, 11:42 PM   #13
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I don't think Samurai took a direct hit, because he wasn't focused upon. Amaterasu was used on the spot where A was, and then the rolled backwards while Sasuke immediately tried to locate the Raikage. But even if it was a direct hit: it's steel - equally durable to the Sandaime Raikage's skin in hype, and the Samurai was clearly in danger if he hand't had the armor removed.

As for Nagato, he was incapacitated for the entire plot conversation, and we saw the last portion of his immortality-regeneration before he pushed the flames off. And as a matter of fact, this does somewhat support the notion that the technique Amaterasu is more than just black flames. I would not call Nagato frail either, because he took a big hit from v2 Killer Bee before activating Preta.

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Old 05-23-2012, 12:02 AM   #14
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Sandaime should eventually succumb to Amaterasu. SM Naruto was able to dodge him, and the rubber guy reacted to him fine, so he won't be dodging it.

The question here is whether or not Sandaime can kill Sasuke before he is incinerated. Sasuke will most likely need his higher forms forms of Susanoo to block a one-finger Nukite. Sandaime might be able to pull it off if he wears Sasuke down before he is reduced to ash.

Sasuke 6/10
Raikage 2/10
Draw 2/10
Nothing short of high diff on each side.

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Old 05-23-2012, 12:13 AM   #15
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hebi sasuke outran amaterasu and only got caught in the end because of lack of speed. v1 would easily outrun amaterasu.

and even if he got hit whats amaterasu gonna do to him? he freaking tanked RM - FRS wich destroys chakra pathways on a celular lvl and stil got up.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IchLiebe View Post
3rd Raikage possibly puts the worse ass whooping ever to be put on an Uchiha in history, oh what a glorious day it would be.

Tsukuyomi- Useless
Amaterasu- Useless
Susanoo- Useless
Absolutely none of this is true, lol.

Light him up and keep him under a genjutsu. Pretty much GG.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:47 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by •Sharingan Squid• View Post
Absolutely none of this is true, lol.

Light him up and keep him under a genjutsu. Pretty much GG.
That's counterproductive since pain breaks Genjutsu.

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Old 05-23-2012, 04:13 PM   #18
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3rd Raikage is only in a V1 shroud. He can't dodge Amaterasu. He likely can keep fighting while it's burning him though for quite a while.

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Old 05-23-2012, 05:44 PM   #19
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Amaterasu would eventually kill the Sandaime Raikage, should Sasuke be able to successfully execute it. However, given his immense durability and endurance, it would take a while, and chances are he'd still be able to fight a while still cloaked by the flames (like his son was, though to be fair the flames only cloaked his arm), making him temporarily more deadly in close combat. Of course, keeping a steady distance with his slew of techniques shouldn't be hard; he has Susano'o for defense (it's likely the Sandaime Raikage's Jigokuzuki can smash ribcage Susano'o like this, but I don't think it would work on the completed versions) and the hawk for flying out of his range.

In all honesty, catching him on fire with Amaterasu shouldn't be difficult at all. The Sandaime Raikage isn't nearly as fast as A, and he only dodged it because he was prepared for it Amaterasu. Shunshin is also substantially different to 'normal' battle speed in that it's merely a burst of fast movement, which cannot be sustained. Assuming the Sandaime Raikage could reach A levels of speed, he wouldn't be able to dodge for a continuous amount of time and would be caught eventually. If not, Sasuke can employ Enton to shroud his Susano'o ribcage with it to force the Sandaime Raikage to hit it, but that's pretty unlikely as the only reason A continued his attack was because he was so angry at Sasuke and the Sandaime shouldn't be nearly as bloodlusted. Then again, what are the chances of Sasuke missing? Let's account for all the factors:

  1. The two are presumably within close proximity to each other (they're primarily close quarter fighters), and Amaterasu is nigh instant up close.
  2. The Sandaime Raikage won't be expecting it.
  3. The Raikage isn't as fast as his son, and does not have the luxury of being able to amp his Raiton no Yoroi with more chakra in preparation for Amaterasu.
Amaterasu is his best bet here, but it should be obvious that the Mangekyō Sharingan is his only true chance here. His base arsenal wouldn't cut it against him. Tsukuyomi could work, but catching direct eye contact may be difficult, and I don't think Susano'o is as reliable as Amaterasu in this case. The arrows are strong, yes, but if their trajectory can be altered by a single tree...they're probably not strong enough to cause significant wounds on his opponent here.

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Old 05-23-2012, 11:07 PM   #20
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The best sasuke can do is a draw.
Sandaime has the same raiton shield as A, but he has never gone up against Amaterasu, been hyped as the fastest man alive, or escaped the sharingan's sight, so the most probable conclusion is that he is not fast enough to evade amaterasu.
If Sandaime can survive a FRS, then he should be able to survive slow-burning amaterasu long enough to kill sasuke.

MS Sasuke's susanoo was penetrated by danzo's fuuton powered up by baku's suction, which should still be leagues below the offensive power of a FRS which has far less piercing power than sandaime's nugite, so saindaime should be able to fairly easily breach any of sasuke's susanoo's, even his final susanoo, and that's basically all sasuke has.

Genjutsu is practically a non-factor due to sandaime constantly pumping tons of raiton through his nervous system, his immense speed, and reflexes.

So whether raikage wins or draws depends on sasuke's descision to use amaterasu before he gets skewered. If he uses amaterasu on sandaime, sandaime will resist the flames long enough to kill him.

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