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View Poll Results: Itachi vs. Kakashi (no MS)
Itachi soloes. 23 51.11%
The copy ninja takes this. 13 28.89%
Too close to call. 6 13.33%
xKantStopx, you're the shizznit. 1 2.22%
dafuq is this? 2 4.44%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:21 PM   #41
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The sharingan stuff is true (though Kakashi's improvement with the sharingan will mean it won't be the same as P1), however there still will be a difference, even if it's small. It's the type of thing that might come into play if the fight is extremely close.

A key factor will be the genjutsu vs ninjutsu, i.e who can dictate the fight. Kakashi will probably go in with a clone like he did the last time they fought. If that happens and Kakashi can avoid the genjutsu (the way fights progress with Itachi, he rarely goes back to genjutsu once it's been avoided) then Kakashi's superior ninjutsu will come into effect, especially as he has the elemental advantage. Raiton/Suiton > Suiton/Kaiton.

Regarding intelligence, there's different forms of it. Kakashi has shown better strategy than Itachi, who in turn has shown better awareness than Kakashi.

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Old 05-08-2012, 08:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
I don't think speed is a non-issue at all; in fact, it's one of the most important qualities for deciding a fight. Itachi can weave signs at speeds even Kakashi's Sharingan can't track, which gives him an advantage if he chooses to make use of it.

I also wouldn't say that they have the same eye power, because Itachi- being a true heir to the Sharingan -is obviously the superior of the two and has demonstrated this pretty profoundly up until now.



Kakashi does seem to have become more accustomed to using it, but we haven't seen him in a protracted fight throughout all of Shippuuden (unless you count his off-panel "rampage", during which he had the support of an entire division).
Overestimated as usual. Handseal speed Kakashi can't keep up with? Lies.
http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/142/8
Blocked and did the same thing as Itachi.
http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/142/10
Oh and note that when Itachi used Tsukiyomi, Kakashi was at less than 25% chakra. Funny huh.
And here Kakashi keeps up again.
http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/260/6
And creates a bunshin and attacks Itachi as seen in the bottom-left corner. Kakashi can keep up with Itachi and get the better of him.

Itachi isn't going to blitz Kakashi, or overpower him in a taijutsu fight.

The sharingan means shit when Kakashi has been fighting for 2 days.

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Old 05-08-2012, 08:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSaiyaMan12 View Post
And Kakashi doesn't have any issues with it anymore considering he has had it on indefinitely for two days.
We have only seen Kakashi once or twice during those two days; just because he happened to have Sharingan on then doesn't mean he had it on continuously the entire time.

The vast majority of those two days happened off-panel with no way of knowing what transpired.

Quote:
Kakashi can hang with Itachi. We seen it during their physical confrontation at the beginning of Part II.
You mean nerfed Shouten Itachi fighting at 30% of the original's strength and speed. Yeah.

Quote:
And Kakashi even was able to surprise Tobi with his speed, can the same be said about Itachi?
Tobi was never surprised by Kakashi's speed. He complemented Kakashi's speed, but that's completely different from being surprised by it.

It's a moot point anyway since we know Itachi is faster.

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Old 05-08-2012, 08:35 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by IchLiebe View Post
Overestimated as usual. Handseal speed Kakashi can't keep up with? Lies.
http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/142/8
Blocked and did the same thing as Itachi.
Kakashi himself stated he didn't see the seals; it was pure coincidence that he pulled off a clone feint, because his clone didn't notice Itachi's clone until it stabbed him.

Quote:
http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/142/10
Oh and note that when Itachi used Tsukiyomi, Kakashi was at less than 25% chakra. Funny huh.
Where'd you get the 25% from? All I can tell from the manga is that Kakashi was tired.

Quote:
And here Kakashi keeps up again.
http://www.mangakong.com/manga/Naruto/260/6
And creates a bunshin and attacks Itachi as seen in the bottom-left corner. Kakashi can keep up with Itachi and get the better of him.
That was Shouten Itachi, fighting at 30% of the original's power.

Quote:
Itachi isn't going to blitz Kakashi, or overpower him in a taijutsu fight.
I didn't say he would do either of those things.

But he has advantages over Kakashi that can't very well be ignored.

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The sharingan means shit when Kakashi has been fighting for 2 days.
We barely saw any of what happened during those two days.

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Old 05-08-2012, 08:38 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
We have only seen Kakashi once or twice during those two days; just because he happened to have Sharingan on then doesn't mean he had it on continuously the entire time.

The vast majority of those two days happened off-panel with no way of knowing what transpired.
.
Kakashi fought Hidan and Kakuzu at the same time for a decent period of time and showed no signs of fatigue. Likewise we know he's been fighting in this war for an extended period.

His energy levels with the sharingan are of no issue anymore. However I agree that Itachi does and will always have an edge when it comes to the mastery of it, even if the difference is minimal. He'll be able to read Kakashi's movements a fraction before Kakashi reads his.

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Old 05-08-2012, 08:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
We have only seen Kakashi once or twice during those two days; just because he happened to have Sharingan on then doesn't mean he had it on continuously the entire time.

The vast majority of those two days happened off-panel with no way of knowing what transpired.
Kakashi was fighting CONSTANTLY during those two days.


Quote:
You mean nerfed Shouten Itachi fighting at 30% of the original's strength and speed. Yeah.
The only 'nerfing' was that Itachi couldn't use the Mangekyo Sharingan. He could use ALL of Itachi's other abilities, was just limited by the AMOUNT OF CHAKRA he had. It isn't a '30% Itachi', it was a 'Itachi with 30% chakra'.


Quote:
Tobi was never surprised by Kakashi's speed. He complemented Kakashi's speed, but that's completely different from being surprised by it.

It's a moot point anyway since we know Itachi is faster.
Itachi's feats do not support that. Kakashi got Tobi's back and he complimented him. Has Itachi ever done anything similar?

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Old 05-08-2012, 08:48 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
Kakashi himself stated he didn't see the seals; it was pure coincidence that he pulled off a clone feint, because his clone didn't notice Itachi's clone until it stabbed him.



Where'd you get the 25% from? All I can tell from the manga is that Kakashi was tired.



That was Shouten Itachi, fighting at 30% of the original's power.



I didn't say he would do either of those things.

But he has advantages over Kakashi that can't very well be ignored.



We barely saw any of what happened during those two days.
He used a jutsu, Itachi used a jutsu. Itachi used a clone, Kakashi used a clone. The same things basically in the same time.
He used 2 clones. Clones take half your chakra so 100/2=50/2=25% then he used 2 suitons so it was less than 25%.

30% chakra. His speed isn't affected. He used a jutsu, Kakashi used a jutsu and created a bunshin and attacked Itachi. They are almost the same.

Sorry, I thought that you were implying it. His advantages are little to nothing. It is a small gap.

Look at what he did against Kakuza and Hidan. He used a lot of chakra and still went on.

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:14 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Kakashi Is God View Post
Kakashi fought Hidan and Kakuzu at the same time for a decent period of time and showed no signs of fatigue. Likewise we know he's been fighting in this war for an extended period.

His energy levels with the sharingan are of no issue anymore. However I agree that Itachi does and will always have an edge when it comes to the mastery of it, even if the difference is minimal. He'll be able to read Kakashi's movements a fraction before Kakashi reads his.
Even if the strain from using it has diminished, I don't think it's something that has gone away completely; the problem arose in the first place because Kakashi's body is genetically inadequate for Sharingan, so unless he went and borrowed Kabuto's people-juicer, he should still experience some rebound from exerting himself with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSaiyaMan12 View Post
Kakashi was fighting CONSTANTLY during those two days.
How do you know? Were you there?

Quote:
The only 'nerfing' was that Itachi couldn't use the Mangekyo Sharingan. He could use ALL of Itachi's other abilities, was just limited by the AMOUNT OF CHAKRA he had. It isn't a '30% Itachi', it was a 'Itachi with 30% chakra'.
That's not what Kisame said; he stated that the strength and the available Jutsu were both limited for the Shouten replicas proportional to the chakra allocated to them:

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/260/16

There's even a very obvious difference in the scale of their Jutsu:

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/260/3

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/549/4

Quote:
Itachi's feats do not support that.
Itachi danced around Hebi Sasuke with a hole in his leg while suffering from Tsukuyomi rebound and could keep up evenly with KCM Naruto. His feats absolutely support it, but that's immaterial, because the databooks lay it out in hard numbers.

Quote:
Kakashi got Tobi's back and he complimented him. Has Itachi ever done anything similar?
No, but that's purely incidental; we never saw Itachi and Tobi fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchLiebe View Post
He used a jutsu, Itachi used a jutsu. Itachi used a clone, Kakashi used a clone. The same things basically in the same time.
He used 2 clones. Clones take half your chakra so 100/2=50/2=25% then he used 2 suitons so it was less than 25%.
The problem is that Kakashi's clone was a Mizu Bunshin, not a Kage Bunshin, and we have no way of knowing what percentage of his chakra he used for those other Jutsu.

Quote:
30% chakra. His speed isn't affected. He used a jutsu, Kakashi used a jutsu and created a bunshin and attacked Itachi. They are almost the same.
Kisame directly stated that the amount of chakra determined the strength of the replicas.

Quote:
Sorry, I thought that you were implying it. His advantages are little to nothing. It is a small gap.
A small gap is still a gap; as long as Itachi uses those advantages in conjunction with his superior eye power, he should win.

Quote:
Look at what he did against Kakuza and Hidan. He used a lot of chakra and still went on.
That's true, but that fight didn't last very long either. All Kakashi really demonstrated was increased chakra capacity, not Sharingan tolerance.

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:24 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
The problem is that Kakashi's clone was a Mizu Bunshin, not a Kage Bunshin, and we have no way of knowing what percentage of his chakra he used for those other Jutsu.



Kisame directly stated that the amount of chakra determined the strength of the replicas.



A small gap is still a gap; as long as Itachi uses those advantages in conjunction with his superior eye power, he should win.



That's true, but that fight didn't last very long either.
Mizu bunshin takes the same amount as the original. He isn't said to take less in the databook.
http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost...&postcount=180
Those jutsu's still affect him no matter how little.

Chakra wise yes, but I don't see how handseal speed is affected.

Kakashi has the better jutsu set giving him a major advantage. Raitons, suiton, and summonings. This makes up for it and wins it for Kakashi.

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:40 PM   #50
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Kakashi is very fast. didnt When he intercepted Tobi to save Naruto, Gai I believe had a Gate activated too, which means he matched a Gated speed despite Fighting for more than a Day albeit against the 7 swordsmen in a War?
Spoiler:


then still could hold off Bijuu

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Old 05-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
I don't think speed is a non-issue at all; in fact, it's one of the most important qualities for deciding a fight. Itachi can weave signs at speeds even Kakashi's Sharingan can't track, which gives him an advantage if he chooses to make use of it.

I also wouldn't say that they have the same eye power, because Itachi- being a true heir to the Sharingan -is obviously the superior of the two and has demonstrated this pretty profoundly up until now.
Speed is a non-issue at this point because I believe Kakashi has improved enough to be ranked in the same category as Itachi. Itachi with a full tier advantage against Kakashi (w/sharingan) [Part 1] was able to respond to him, despite being slower.

Well, it comes down to feats and without MS, that true-heir stuff doesn't really mean anything. And Kakashi has more lethal ninjutsu than he does, thus I see Kakashi having the advantage (especially considering his clone feints).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikushimi View Post
Kakashi does seem to have become more accustomed to using it, but we haven't seen him in a protracted fight throughout all of Shippuuden (unless you count his off-panel "rampage", during which he had the support of an entire division).
The author hasn't touched base on it yet and his usage of his ninjutsu so recklessly leads me to believe he's probably managed to make his stamina grow and at the same time asserted more of a control. I'd say a little of both, but I don't think he has a flat 3.0 in stamina anymore. He's definitely pushing a 3.5 or 4.
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Originally Posted by raizen28 View Post
Kakashi is very fast. didnt When he intercepted Tobi to save Naruto, Gai I believe had a Gate activated too, which means he matched a Gated speed despite Fighting for more than a Day albeit against the 7 swordsmen in a War?
Spoiler:
then still could hold off Bijuu
Not only that but he surprised Tobi who stated "Wow, that was fast" when Yamato ambushed him with the wood. That's a perfect example of what would happen to Itachi, once a clone was able to attract Itachi's full attention.

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:25 PM   #52
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How would Kakashi trick Itachi?

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Old 05-08-2012, 11:56 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by IchLiebe View Post
During a fight, you are going to lose sight of your opponent. And Kakashi has been fighting for 2 days with sharingan active so its irrelevant.
Yeah this war arc has messed up all the chakra levels as we saw itachi spamming susanoo and amertersu without fatigue. But you are right, as far as we have been shown, Kakashi had his sharingan activated
Quote:

Crow clones don't explode. Exploding bunshins take half chakra.
I never said they do. All I said was that he can use exploding clones as offense and crow clones as distractions(which as I mentioned take less chakra)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuzaki View Post

Kakashi has an advantage when it comes to ninjutsu, kinjutsu and has better strategies/tactician feats. Furthermore, unlike Itachi, Kakashi has multiple methods to kill his opponent, Itachi lacks actual killing moves in his base arsenal. Furthermore, Kakashi was able to trick him before, he'll trick him again. It's only a matter of time.
First of all kinjutsu doesn't matter since Kakashi doesn't have a sword, but as for ninja tools itachi has shown to be better at them.

And how is Kakashi going to trick itachi again? Wouldn't itachi know about it this time.
Quote:
If it comes to a battle of weapons, Kakashi's raiton-channeling gives him the upper hand.
Has Kakashi even shown to channel his ration through weapons?

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:03 AM   #54
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I'm not sure whether to be offended or take it as a compliment that you started a thread on quote I made. However, I stand by my statement in that thread and what Yoko/ImSerious stated in their respective first posts.
You should feel honored. But I like the points that everyone is bringing up.

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Old 05-09-2012, 01:02 AM   #55
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Although Itachi will win, it will certainly not be with ease; many underestimate Kakashi's skill and versatility.

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Old 05-09-2012, 06:50 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by narutoish View Post
Yeah this war arc has messed up all the chakra levels as we saw itachi spamming susanoo and amertersu without fatigue. But you are right, as far as we have been shown, Kakashi had his sharingan activated


I never said they do. All I said was that he can use exploding clones as offense and crow clones as distractions(which as I mentioned take less chakra)



First of all kinjutsu doesn't matter since Kakashi doesn't have a sword, but as for ninja tools itachi has shown to be better at them.

And how is Kakashi going to trick itachi again? Wouldn't itachi know about it this time.


Has Kakashi even shown to channel his ration through weapons?
Distractions won't matter as it won't kill his clone and he will be making Itachi waste chakra.

Knowing something is going to happen doesn't mean you can stop it, plus he don't know about RKB.

Yes, he channeled raiton through Zabuza's sword to cut the fat swordsmen in half.

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Old 05-09-2012, 06:52 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
How would Kakashi trick Itachi?
how wouldnt he trick Itachi? he even tricked Pain who has linked vision of the rinnegan

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:09 PM   #58
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How would Kakashi trick Itachi?
Go read the Kakashi vs Itachi fight.

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:12 PM   #59
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i did, but that won't work on Itachi. He already know Kakashi
s tricks

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:18 PM   #60
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i did, but that won't work on Itachi. He already know Kakashi
s tricks
RKB my friend. Itachi has no knowledge on it.

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