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Old 10-16-2011, 07:25 AM   #1
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Default Berserker (FSN) vs Fate/Zero Servants

Berserker (FSN) vs Fate/Zero Servants

Which servants he can beat 1 vs. 1?

Scenario 1: unrestricted

Scenario 2: Berserker (FSN) has only 1 life.

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Old 10-16-2011, 07:40 AM   #2
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In scenario 1 Heracles beats: Assassin, Caster, Rider, Lancer and likely Berserker.
The last one depends on whether Ardonlight can eliminate Heracles or not.
As for the other Servants:
- Gilgamesh would obviously stomp him, like he did in UBW. Not to mention that with Tokiomi he actually has enough raw strength to pass God Hand with his normal attacks.

- Saber is stronger than she was under Shirou's control. In addition Excalibur has a good chance of killing Heracles in a single attack.
...Although recently I begun to doubt the latter. Heracles casually deflected an Excaliblast from the weakened Saber. Also in HF where Saber Alter was supposed to be always on full power, Heracles only lost a single life against her Excaliblast. It remains unclear whether he would be immune to Excalibur following that beause he had never shown to adapt against something as powerful as Saber's NP. Still, the Excaliblast isn't something you can just rapid-fire. In addition Saber is limited to B class strength still so her casual attacks won't pass the God Hand.

Alright, Scenario 2: Heracles beats Assassin, Caster, Rider and maybe Lancer.

The later is dubious because both combatants have a chance to kill each other. Lancer is more nimble but his regular attacks won't pass God Hand. He needs to use Gae Dearg to nullify Berserker's defense and kill him.

Rider/Iskander, while being an awesome Servant, lacks in terms of firepower to bring Berserker down. Neither of his attacks are at A class which is an obvious requirement to take on Heracles.

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Old 10-16-2011, 07:58 AM   #3
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Those that have A rank attacks can kill him with one life if they can overcome his stats and Mind's eye fake rank A, with all his lives it requires a lot of NPS, he's got battle continuation. He's still the second strongest servant in both wars via godhand and his insane stats alone. Rin Saber is the only one who can match him equally as per UBW route and Gil has the firepower, Gil's power comes from his NPs and he's got almost every NP in myth plus them being A rank not factoring his EA. Lancelot has his Holy sword that's on par with Excalibur so if Saber has a shot so would he, he's situational and needs the environment for more weapons that are D rank unless he's got NPS nearby in which case they retain their rank. Lancer Fate/Zero has anti-regen and anti-NP spears so maybe him too. Iskander's soldiers do nothing, neither will his sword so it's the Chariot that will kill Berserker.

Saber beat Berserker through some DEM involving Caliburn and that's after he died 6 times before at Archer's hands who himself died. UBW Gil had to use some 30+ NPS along with Enkidu then Gae Bolg while Berserker was forced to defend Illya drastically reducing his ability to counter and dodge. HF required Saber Alter with insane prana+Hassan+Shadow. He's still Hercules even if he's nerfed badly in the war. One life+Battle continuation would still be a problem but top tiers beat him.

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Old 10-16-2011, 08:21 AM   #4
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Oh yeah thats a point if Sabers Rin's sabers had a good chance of kicking berserkers ass via A rank strength and Excaliblast shouldn't lancelot fair about the same considering his stats are better than hers in one rank in everything except luck and mana (which he doesn't need as much for excaliblasts etc) and luck which is still A in comparison to Sabre's A+ plus he has protection of the fairies which ncreases his luck in dangerous situations.

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Old 10-16-2011, 08:42 AM   #5
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Rin Saber can only match him in combat, as in, she can trade blow with him without getting flung away and archive something akin to a stalemate.
Nobody said anything about completely beating/killing him.

Also, Saber has Instinct and prana burst, both great boosts in combat. Lancelot doesn't have any equivalent skill to those. Ability to turn all weapon/gear into D rank NP is kinda useless vs Heracles

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Old 10-16-2011, 08:43 AM   #6
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Stats mean nothing, Two servants can have A rank in strength but one can be vastly stronger than the other, two NPs can be A rank but one can still be much stronger. Lancelot is comparable to King Arthur so in this case it's powerscaling, he uses the Mad Enhancement to make up for the bad master and his NPs counter his insanity.

Lancelot does not have Saber's prana/prana burst, precog, regen, ability to enhance speed via her wind attack or excalibeam however so it's base and CQC skill only . Shirou said she could match match him in stats with all that prana from Rin supplementing her own massive prana, no more. Lancelot's sword is anti fortress and anti dragon not anti-army, it's comparable to base Excalibur not amped up by Saber's prana excalibur.

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Old 10-16-2011, 08:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquil Fury View Post
Stats mean nothing, Two servants can have A rank in strength but one can be vastly stronger than the other, two NPs can be A rank but one can still be much stronger. Lancelot is comparable to King Arthur so in this case it's powerscaling, he uses the Mad Enhancement to make up for the bad master and his NPs counter his insanity.

Lancelot does not have Saber's prana/prana burst, precog, ability to enhance speed via her wind attack or excalibeam however so it's base and CQC skill only . Shirou said only Berserker could match her in stats, no more nothing about Saber stomping him or winning 100% because she can't outside a powerful Excalibeam.
Clearly stats do mean something otherwise Rin's Saber wouldn't have been implied to be so strong in comparison to shirou's sabre. Also we're talking about berserker where stats mean everything.

Shirou said that in that state not even Berserker could beat her. He didn't mention about equal stats or anything else. Also an attack from caliburn an A+ ranked noble phantasm managed to take away 6 lives. Arondight is A++ and Lancelot has A+ ranked strength. It's pretty obvious he could take a lot more than 6 lives. but he probably can't take them all.

Also Saber doesn't have regen (unless given avalon) and lancelot is a superior swordsman to Sabre which is an undeniable fact, precog and prana burst wouldn't help her beat him. He was stated to be unrivalled in swordsmanship his era, guess who was in his era.

Excaliblast is her only advantage against him (outside of hax avalon) without that he could most probably kick the ass of rin's sabre.

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Old 10-16-2011, 09:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Clearly stats do mean something otherwise Rin's Saber wouldn't have been implied to be so strong in comparison to shirou's sabre. Also we're talking about berserker where stats mean everything
Because Rin Saber has exactly the same skill set as Shirou's Saber, and superior stats.
High prana also allow Prana burst better, which enhance her stats, a lot.


Archer himself could stall a Lancer with his meager stat thank to just one skill: Eyes of mind True. Stat matter, but Skill even more so.
Quote:
Shirou said that in that state not even Berserker could beat her. He didn't mention about equal stats or anything else.
And he never said she can beat him, either.
Also, he was vague, but we do have stat sheets, including skills, so a little comparision and logical reasoning can explain a lot.
Quote:
Also an attack from caliburn an A+ ranked noble phantasm managed to take away 6 lives. Arondight is A++ and Lancelot has A+ ranked strength. It's pretty obvious he could take a lot more than 6 lives. but he probably can't take them all.
Except NP does not work like that, rank is cool, but the effect/concept behind them is also important.
An example: Fragarach can beat Excalibur and EA easily, but only score a double KO vs Gae Bolg, a mere B-rank NP (which, incidentally, had it strongest attack neutralized by C-rank Rho Aias thank to the 'stop all projectile' concept).
According to Illya: 'NP combat is a combat of loop holes'.

We don't know Caliburn ability, and it only managed the 7 kill after Saber activating said ability.
Hell, we don't know its rank, we only know as a combat weapon it's weaker than Excalibur, so it could be anything from A+ and less
Consider the one used to kill Berserker would have one rank reduced thank to being projection, and worse - Shirou's projection, so those 7 kills definitely was ability-based, not power.
Quote:
Also Saber doesn't have regen (unless given avalon) and lancelot is a superior swordsman to Sabre which is an undeniable fact, precog and prana burst wouldn't help her beat him. He was stated to be unrivalled in swordsmanship his era, guess who was in his era.
Skill in using weapon/combat (not Personal Skills) is a large part, but not all combat prowess is about.

And it'd be foolish to underestimate precog and prana burst.

- Instinct allow Saber to parry mach 13.4 arrow and attacks 3 times her speed continuously, as well as surviving unexpected blows from Hebi.

- Prana burst boost her stat in all parameter, and fuel even her sword skill.
Even with just B rank strength and C rank agi, Shirou Saber could match Berserker blow to blow for a while before she run out of prana again and become exhausted.
The enhancement was intense enough that the status page said a weapon without divine protection will be broken with once use.

And yes, Saber have regen without Avalon, that's exactly what she did after getting pierced by Gae Bolg and later hurt by Berserker. It just that she cant completely heal from Gae Bolg and lose prana when regen. And her prana is very limited under Shirou.
Quote:
Excaliblast is her only advantage against him (outside of hax avalon) without that he could most probably kick the ass of rin's sabre.
Kinda baseless assumption.


Last edited by Riverlia; 10-16-2011 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:30 AM   #9
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What about Fate/Extra servants? Are there any high/top-tier material capable on taking a win against Berserker?

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Old 10-16-2011, 09:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
What about Fate/Extra servants? Are there any high/top-tier material capable on taking a win against Berserker?
Even in-story, the whole game is just a virtual simulation, which does not reflect the real character's power level properly (even between Servants within the same system, what with Brunestud not steamrolling everyone and Ryougi killing 99 Servants).
So you cant exactly compare F/SN or F/Z Servant to F/E Servants.
LOL all EX Archer

If you want to compare the real template's power level and Berserker:
Berserk Arcueid curbstomps

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Old 10-16-2011, 10:02 AM   #11
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On the subject of other Servants I think Karna or Saint George from Fate/Apocrypha can kill Berserker (F/SN) by themselves.

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Old 10-16-2011, 10:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverlia View Post
Even in-story, the whole game is just a virtual simulation, which does not reflect the real character's power level properly (even between Servants within the same system, what with Brunestud not steamrolling everyone and Ryougi killing 99 Servants).
So you cant exactly compare F/SN or F/Z Servant to F/E Servants.
LOL all EX Archer

If you want to compare the real template's power level and Berserker:
Berserk Arcueid curbstomps
The system of the moonshell negates popularity and legends and just base them on raw power, Arc is ok because she isn't getting the backup from Gaea (and even there she is low on stats, she is supposedly to have double Heracles stats on base form).

Now caster extra (the fox one), is a watered down version of her true form or she would be at least stronger than 30% arc and possible gil (as she would be a goddess).

St. George is hax... 1 of the few servants that can streamroll Saber with a hand tied to his back.

I have hear the concept of Caliburn is "Victory" sword of promise victory... but haven't see any actual material confirming this.

And I am against willy statement, Berserker would die with 1 life vs Rider/zero, via expungio.

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Old 10-16-2011, 10:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
The system of the moonshell negates popularity and legends and just base them on raw power, Arc is ok because she isn't getting the backup from Gaea (and even there she is low on stats, she is supposedly to have double Heracles stats on base form).
I think the greatest problem is we don't know if the stat system being used is the same as HF

And there's the problem of whether the record reflected the supernatural characters' ability correctly or not, as well as allowing Servants to increase their stat.

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Old 10-16-2011, 02:42 PM   #14
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I would have thought that Heracles would be hurt badly by Iskander's chariot

Type moon wiki says the chariot is drawn by two Divine-Beast level Bulls, so it should be stronger than Medusa's Pegasus which is only the second rank of phantasmal beast.

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Old 10-16-2011, 07:45 PM   #15
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The only thing for sure is that he beats Caster and Assassin, since both lack the DC to take his lives.

The Berserker vs Berserker has already been gone over in a thread, I wont talk about it. Point is Lancelot wins or comes very damn close to doing so.

Gilgamesh rapes, need I say anything?

Lancer should pull it off. His regular attacks wouldnt hurt Herakles, but he is fast enough to consistantly dodge and pull of consecutive special attacks (Gae whatever).

People underestimate Iskander. His bulls alone would clear quite a few lives, with the lightning strikes. On top of that, his army would overpower Herakles, and take a few lives. On top of all that, he is faster then Herakles. He comes close to winning, or wins.

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Old 10-17-2011, 06:48 AM   #16
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I've only seen the fate stay night anime so I can't really say anything about this. What I will say though is that damn, is almost every servant loaded with tons of h4x? Also how many different Fate scenarios are? I know Fate Stay Night and Fate/Zero but are there any others?

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Old 10-17-2011, 01:22 PM   #17
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I've only seen the fate stay night anime so I can't really say anything about this. What I will say though is that damn, is almost every servant loaded with tons of h4x? Also how many different Fate scenarios are? I know Fate Stay Night and Fate/Zero but are there any others?
Those are the two mains although the anime mainly covered fate route with small bits of UBW and HF mixed in. There's also Fate/hollow ataraxia which isn't really a holy grail war and is very weird (pretty much just a fan disk) and then there's a psp game that is of a different continuity,

Hax wise Gilgamesh, Saber, Berserker and Lancer stand out with Archer also mostly due to Gae bolg.

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