The Islam Debate & Discussion Thread - Page 146 - Naruto Forums
  • Free Naruto Games
  • Naruto Wallpaper
  • Want a Good Laugh Check out These Funny Pics
Welcome to the Naruto Forums. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Notices

Go Back   Naruto Forums > Downtown Konoha > The NF Café > Debate Corner
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-21-2009, 01:35 PM   #2901
sadated_peon
King of the potato people.
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,078
sadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysian
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesshomaru
Muhammad wasn't your average Muslim, he was the prophet of Allah upon whom the Quran was revealed. This is a silly comparison because you are comparing a "Prophet Level" person to an average believer like me. Also the fact that this didn't happen makes the whole thing ridiculous.
I used Muhammad for the specific reason that you guys wouldn’t even considered the possibility of him renouncing his religion. The very point was to show up your bias toward the issue. You are placing special importance on Islam and degrading paganism, when this same importance is shown in the reverse you complain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakamada
Surah Al Masad was revealed before Abu Lahab died. The surah says that Abu Lahab will burn in blazing flames. Let's say Abu Lahab would pretended to be a Muslim in the time between the revalation of the surah and his death. That would be in contradiction to Surah Al Masad. Because becoming a Muslim increases your chances of going to heaven. So the people, who aren't able to see a person's true intentions, would see this as the Quran not being valid. (Of course Allah notices when someone pretends or not as he is the All-seeing)The Muslims would leave Islam as the revalation and the situation are contradicting each other. Abu Lahab would have destroyed Islam. But he didn't become a Muslim. So the point is, Muhammed (pbuh) couldn't have come up with the Quran as he would risk too much. The aforementioned could have happened. But it didn't, because it's Allah's word.
Lol wut?

No, all that would have happened would be that Muhammad said that he got a revelation that Abu Lahab was pretending to be a Muslim, that he was still a pagan and that he was burning in hell. As it is a revelation from god, it must be true. Unless you think that you can doubt Muhammad on his word, and if you are going to doubt him on his word, then you would have done so already and wouldn't be a Muslim in the first place.

Or better yet, even if this guy truly converted to Islam, god to keep this prophecy could burn him in hell because of his past crimes, EVEN THOUGH he converted to Islam.
Can you show me where it says that if he converts to Islam he will go to heaven, and not just the assumption that if he did he would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakamada
Therefore, I believe your comparison doesn't make sense because the Pagans never predicted Muhammed (pbuh) going to hell. It never happened, thus it's hard to compare.

Ahh.... I forgot why I was typing this.. *headache*
I doubt what they predicted would be written down for us to read.
But it doesn’t really matter, it is the principle that matters. The principle being that trying to establish validity based off of such an example is flawed.

sadated_peon is offline  
NarutoForums
        


Old 08-21-2009, 04:23 PM   #2902
Nakamada
Newbie
Academy Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere far, far away
Posts: 29
Nakamada is just really niceNakamada is just really niceNakamada is just really niceNakamada is just really niceNakamada is just really nice
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadated_peon View Post

Lol wut?

No, all that would have happened would be that Muhammad said that he got a revelation that Abu Lahab was pretending to be a Muslim, that he was still a pagan and that he was burning in hell. As it is a revelation from god, it must be true. Unless you think that you can doubt Muhammad on his word, and if you are going to doubt him on his word, then you would have done so already and wouldn't be a Muslim in the first place.
First of all, I don't think I can doubt Muhammad (pbuh) on his word because I am a Muslim. I was basically trying to explain that I believe the Quran is Allah's word. The situation I described seemed logical to me... But the situation you described as well.

I must honestly say that the situation I described might sound logical in my ears, but isn't a good one because it is like: ''If this... then that''. It's not good, at least to me, because it's basically me trying to create events that never happened by reversing certain events. I think we can go on forever like this. Anyway, it's late.. but I think I should explain my opinions/beliefs in another way..
I don't even know when/why the question ''Who wrote/came up with the Quran'' was asked...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadated_peon View Post
Or better yet, even if this guy truly converted to Islam, god to keep this prophecy could burn him in hell because of his past crimes, EVEN THOUGH he converted to Islam.
Can you show me where it says that if he converts to Islam he will go to heaven, and not just the assumption that if he did he would.


I doubt what they predicted would be written down for us to read.
But it doesn’t really matter, it is the principle that matters. The principle being that trying to establish validity based off of such an example is flawed.
I didn't say that Abu Lahab would go to heaven if he were to become a Muslim. And this goes for everyone. I don't even dare to say who will go to heaven or to hell, except the people Allah pointed out. It's Allah's choice and He will decide who goes to heaven or to hell. The only thing I said is that I believe someone is more likely to get in heaven when that person is a Muslim. It's not only about converting but the whole package (the pillars, helping the poor/the weak, etc.).

I will come back on this later and I even made a new account because this is my sister's. My sister told me I was allowed to use her account for posting my opinion. But this can get long and it might differ too much from her views in the future.. I can't believe I made an account for this section of the forum Anyway, it's late, so I'm outta here.

Nakamada is offline  
Old 08-21-2009, 07:22 PM   #2903
White Tiger
.
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On board the peace train.
Posts: 6,630
White Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareil
Send a message via MSN to White Tiger
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sadated_peon View Post
I used Muhammad for the specific reason that you guys wouldn’t even considered the possibility of him renouncing his religion. The very point was to show up your bias toward the issue. You are placing special importance on Islam and degrading paganism, when this same importance is shown in the reverse you complain.
Muhammad wouldn't renounce his religion because he is certain that it is the truth where as Paganism is False, its as simple as that.

Islam > Other Religions.

You heard this from me in the most direct way.

White Tiger is offline  
Old 08-21-2009, 08:08 PM   #2904
Danny Lilithborne
我を愛する修羅
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chateau Aensland
Posts: 3,976
Blog Entries: 1
Danny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is Celestial
Default

I'm still not getting the whole Abu Lahad thing.

If someone who claimed to speak for God wrote down "Danny Lilithborne is going to Hell for his continued disbelief in me", I am not sure exactly what I'd stand to gain by saying "Okay, I believe in him now". It would contradict what the guy wrote down, but how necessarily would that negate the whole thing of what the guy has written? Besides, it can't be confirmed for myself until I die, and no one else will be able to confirm it until after they die if they cared to visit me in Hell or whatever.

If Abu Lahad had converted, firstly, because of that verse, no Muslim would believe him, and none of the people who previously gave him shelter or whatever would either as they would see him as a betrayer. He had absolutely nothing to gain by going back from his previous position; even if he genuinely had a change of heart (which I don't believe), he was better off in the life he had standing by his beliefs.

Again, I'm not sure what Muhammad had to gain from all this. To reiterate my true beliefs, I believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad and that the Qur'an was divinely inspired, but He is not my Prophet and I do not believe in Him blindly. Hell, I don't even believe in Bahá'u'lláh blindly. Not saying any of you believe in Muhammad blindly, but you give that impression. :/


Last edited by Danny Lilithborne; 11-15-2009 at 12:11 AM.
Danny Lilithborne is offline  
Old 08-21-2009, 08:16 PM   #2905
White Tiger
.
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On board the peace train.
Posts: 6,630
White Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareil
Send a message via MSN to White Tiger
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Lilithborne View Post
I'm still not getting the whole Abu Lahad thing.

If someone who claimed to speak for God wrote down "Danny Lilithborne is going to Hell for his continued disbelief in me", I am not sure exactly what I'd stand to gain by saying "Okay, I believe in him now". It would contradict what the guy wrote down, but how necessarily would that negate the whole thing of what the guy has written? Besides, it can't be confirmed for myself until I die, and no one else will be able to confirm it until after they die if they cared to visit me in Hell or whatever.

If Abu Lahad had converted, firstly, because of that verse, no Muslim would believe him, and none of the people who previously gave him shelter or whatever would either as they would see him as a betrayer. He had absolutely nothing to gain by going back from his previous position; even if he genuinely had a change of heart (which I don't believe), he was better off in the life he had standing by his beliefs.

Again, I'm not sure what Muhammad had to gain from all this. To reiterate my true beliefs, I believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad and that the Qur'an was divinely inspired, but He is not my Prophet and I do not believe in Him blindly. Hell, I don't even believe in Bahá'u'lláh blindly. Not saying any of you believe in Muhammad blindly, but you give that impression. :/
I know that you believe in God and believe that he is always right.

Now imagine if God was proven wrong?

He could have been proven wrong if Abu Lahab even pretended to accept Islam.

White Tiger is offline  
Old 08-21-2009, 10:18 PM   #2906
maj1n
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,489
maj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminary
Default

So essentially the story you guys are talking about is that God is proven right because Abu Dalab didn't bow down to the threat by Muhammad.

So its a variant of

'Your an asshole if you don't join me'
'No'
'Therefore you are an asshole'

What an amazing logic.

maj1n is offline  
Old 08-21-2009, 11:16 PM   #2907
Deimos
Divine Darkness
Elite Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,015
Deimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is Luminary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Lilithborne View Post
I'm still not getting the whole Abu Lahad thing.

If someone who claimed to speak for God wrote down "Danny Lilithborne is going to Hell for his continued disbelief in me", I am not sure exactly what I'd stand to gain by saying "Okay, I believe in him now". It would contradict what the guy wrote down, but how necessarily would that negate the whole thing of what the guy has written? Besides, it can't be confirmed for myself until I die, and no one else will be able to confirm it until after they die if they cared to visit me in Hell or whatever.

If Abu Lahad had converted, firstly, because of that verse, no Muslim would believe him, and none of the people who previously gave him shelter or whatever would either as they would see him as a betrayer. He had absolutely nothing to gain by going back from his previous position; even if he genuinely had a change of heart (which I don't believe), he was better off in the life he had standing by his beliefs.

Again, I'm not sure what Muhammad had to gain from all this. To reiterate my true beliefs, I believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad and that the Qur'an was divinely inspired, but He is not my Prophet and I do not believe in Him blindly. Hell, I don't even believe in Bahá'u'lláh blindly. Not saying any of you believe in Muhammad blindly, but you give that impression. :/
Regardless of whether anybody believes in him, the Qur'an would still have been contradicted if he converted to Islam. He still had free will after the verse was revealed. He could have genuinely believed in God like anyone else. No human could have made such a prediction with absolute certainty.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the following is off the top of my head - I think there's another one like that in Surat Al-Baqara. At one point, God challenges the people of Moses to wish for death and reveals that they never will. They were how many? A few thousands? If just one of them wished for it, s/he would have proven the verse wrong. No enemy of Islam could've let this opportunity slip away. It's quite strange that none of them were able to do it.

To believe, or not to believe; that is the question.

Deimos is offline  
Old 08-21-2009, 11:38 PM   #2908
Danny Lilithborne
我を愛する修羅
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chateau Aensland
Posts: 3,976
Blog Entries: 1
Danny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is Celestial
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesshomaru View Post
I know that you believe in God and believe that he is always right.

Now imagine if God was proven wrong?

He could have been proven wrong if Abu Lahab even pretended to accept Islam.
...No, not really.

The truth is the truth regardless of what people pretend to be.

Danny Lilithborne is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 03:03 AM   #2909
maj1n
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,489
maj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimos View Post
Regardless of whether anybody believes in him, the Qur'an would still have been contradicted if he converted to Islam. He still had free will after the verse was revealed. He could have genuinely believed in God like anyone else. No human could have made such a prediction with absolute certainty.
I thought it was God that said his fate was hell.

Therefore he has no choice, his ultimate fate is hell no matter what.

maj1n is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 05:44 AM   #2910
Deimos
Divine Darkness
Elite Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,015
Deimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is Luminary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maj1n View Post
I thought it was God that said his fate was hell.

Therefore he has no choice, his ultimate fate is hell no matter what.
It does not matter what God says. The man did not turn into a machine when the verse was revealed.

Besides, he's not the only guy whose fate is known to God. God already knows where all of us are going to end.

Please, let's not turn that into an "OMG WE HAVE NO FREE WILL BECAUSE GOD KNOWS WHAT WE'LL DO" thread.

Deimos is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 06:49 AM   #2911
Danny Lilithborne
我を愛する修羅
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chateau Aensland
Posts: 3,976
Blog Entries: 1
Danny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is CelestialDanny Lilithborne is Celestial
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimos View Post
Please, let's not turn that into an "OMG WE HAVE NO FREE WILL BECAUSE GOD KNOWS WHAT WE'LL DO" thread.
Well, you guys brought up the verse as proof of a miracle of... some sort.

Danny Lilithborne is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:30 AM   #2912
Deimos
Divine Darkness
Elite Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,015
Deimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is LuminaryDeimos is Luminary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Lilithborne View Post
Well, you guys brought up the verse as proof of a miracle of... some sort.
I tried to explain already. If you see nothing special to it, that's fine too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dostoevsky - The brothers Karamazov
In the realist, faith is not born from miracles, but miracles from faith.
Maybe they see it as a miracle because they already have faith. I think that if God was to split the moon now, those who have faith will see it as a miracle and those who don't would go as far as doubting their senses.

The bottom line is: I believe you shouldn't try to rely on a miracle to acquire faith. At least I know I wouldn't. Miracles are there to strengthen one's faith, not create it. I really think that acquiring faith is a long-term process. It's not "OMG HOW DID IT HAPPEN k I believe now". That's just a theory though.

Deimos is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:59 AM   #2913
White Tiger
.
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On board the peace train.
Posts: 6,630
White Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareil
Send a message via MSN to White Tiger
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maj1n View Post
I thought it was God that said his fate was hell.

Therefore he has no choice, his ultimate fate is hell no matter what.
Majin, I know that Abu Lahab hated Islam more than you do.

I know at any opportunity, you would love to prove it and Allah wrong. So suppose Allah wrote in the Quran: Majin will never become Muslim.

Wouldn't you pretend to be a Muslim just to shove it in our face?

White Tiger is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 08:27 AM   #2914
maj1n
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,489
maj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimos View Post
It does not matter what God says. The man did not turn into a machine when the verse was revealed.

Besides, he's not the only guy whose fate is known to God. God already knows where all of us are going to end.

Please, let's not turn that into an "OMG WE HAVE NO FREE WILL BECAUSE GOD KNOWS WHAT WE'LL DO" thread.
But the story goes, as you guys claim, that God told the FATE of Abu Lahad.

So it is impossible for him to avoid it if you presume God is all-knowing.

In other words, it is an illogical story.

It would be like me writing a piece of computer code to compute 1+1=2, then challenging the computer to give me another answer other then 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesshomaru
Majin, I know that Abu Lahab hated Islam more than you do.

I know at any opportunity, you would love to prove it and Allah wrong. So suppose Allah wrote in the Quran: Majin will never become Muslim.

Wouldn't you pretend to be a Muslim just to shove it in our face?
It is a silly and meaningless challenge.

Any religion can challenge any other person from another religion and say 'convert to my religion or else my religion is right'.

I have a challenge for your God.

Make this post the last post i will ever make on this forums, else your God doesn't exist.

See how meaningless such challenges are?

If you are truly serious and believe in the flawed logic of that Abu Lahad story, my challenge is then valid, want to see if your God really exists after this post?


Last edited by maj1n; 08-22-2009 at 08:37 AM.
maj1n is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 08:38 AM   #2915
maj1n
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,489
maj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminary
Default

Looks like your God didn't meet the challenge.

maj1n is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 08:47 AM   #2916
White Tiger
.
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On board the peace train.
Posts: 6,630
White Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareil
Send a message via MSN to White Tiger
Default

My God doesn't need to lol ...

Besides your Challenge is Pathetic.

Islam at that time was rising. People would do anything from stopping this rise. Pretending to be a Muslim would have done this.

White Tiger is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 09:03 AM   #2917
maj1n
Doesn't want a Custom Title
S-Class Missing-nin
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,489
maj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminarymaj1n is Luminary
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesshomaru View Post
My God doesn't need to lol ...

Besides your Challenge is Pathetic.

Islam at that time was rising. People would do anything from stopping this rise. Pretending to be a Muslim would have done this.
So Abu Lahab can just say he doesn't need too.

I'm glad you agree the challenge is pathetic, it just shows how brainwashed you are that you can somehow support Islam's same challenge, but then say the exact same one from a non-Muslim is pathetic.

Islam is on the rise? so is atheism today, since Islam rejects Atheism, why doesn't your God meet the challenge?

exactly the same situation, reversed, but you don't like it now.

maj1n is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 09:24 AM   #2918
sadated_peon
King of the potato people.
Jinchuuriki
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,078
sadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysiansadated_peon is Elysian
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakamada
I didn't say that Abu Lahab would go to heaven if he were to become a Muslim. And this goes for everyone. I don't even dare to say who will go to heaven or to hell, except the people Allah pointed out. It's Allah's choice and He will decide who goes to heaven or to hell. The only thing I said is that I believe someone is more likely to get in heaven when that person is a Muslim. It's not only about converting but the whole package (the pillars, helping the poor/the weak, etc.).

I will come back on this later and I even made a new account because this is my sister's. My sister told me I was allowed to use her account for posting my opinion. But this can get long and it might differ too much from her views in the future.. I can't believe I made an account for this section of the forum Anyway, it's late, so I'm outta here.
So therefore,
If this guy had pretended to convert, he would have still gone to hell.
and
If this guy actually converted, he could still be sent to hell for previous crimes.

In which case, this entire argument is invalid. Because him pretending to convert, or converting didn't lead to him not going to hell. Therefore he couldn't make god wrong by converting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesshomaru
Muhammad wouldn't renounce his religion because he is certain that it is the truth where as Paganism is False, its as simple as that.

Islam > Other Religions.

You heard this from me in the most direct way.
Which is why your arguments always fail, because they are always based on your double standard that your religion is greater. When you look at it objectively your arguments fall apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesshomaru
I know that you believe in God and believe that he is always right.

Now imagine if God was proven wrong?

He could have been proven wrong if Abu Lahab even pretended to accept Islam.
No, it wouldn't prove god wrong.
If Abu Lahab was pretended to convert to Islam he still would have gone to hell. Even if he converted in earnest, there is still nothing to stop god sending him to hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deimos
Regardless of whether anybody believes in him, the Qur'an would still have been contradicted if he converted to Islam. He still had free will after the verse was revealed. He could have genuinely believed in God like anyone else. No human could have made such a prediction with absolute certainty.
No, it wouldn't have to be. As him converting doesn't guarantee that he would go to heaven.

sadated_peon is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 10:10 AM   #2919
White Tiger
.
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On board the peace train.
Posts: 6,630
White Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareilWhite Tiger est le sans pareil
Send a message via MSN to White Tiger
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maj1n View Post
So Abu Lahab can just say he doesn't need too.

I'm glad you agree the challenge is pathetic, it just shows how brainwashed you are that you can somehow support Islam's same challenge, but then say the exact same one from a non-Muslim is pathetic.
The Challenge is not the same. The Challenge was given by God himself and thus, Abu Lahab failed it. The Challenge wasn't given by Muhammad. Even if it was, he is still a prophet level person, much higher than your average people like me or you. You giving a challenge is not the same as God giving a challenge.

Quote:
Islam is on the rise? so is atheism today, since Islam rejects Atheism, why doesn't your God meet the challenge?
Because he doesn't need to. Regardless of what you believe, he still exists and time does not effect him. He will give your chance to repent on this earth and when the time comes, you will be either punished or rewarded.

White Tiger is offline  
Old 08-22-2009, 10:12 AM   #2920
Zaru
▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌▌
Advisor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 53,517
Blog Entries: 1
Zaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissorsZaru saved the planet with a pair of scissors
Default

Assume I get hit by a train tomorrow

Did I get my chance to repent?

Zaru is offline  
Closed Thread
Thread Tools
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump
Quick Style Chooser


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:28 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.    

Design(s) Provided By: Neado Designs

Lifetricks.com Bestlifehacks.org Ben10-games.org
Spiderman-games.com Buyanewcase.com Addicting Games