Thanos w/HOTU vs. Phoenix of the White Crown

Comic Book Guy
04-20-2006, 10:51 PM
First of all, Thanos with the HOTU is NOT above the Living Tribunal. He's above an M-Body of the Living Tribunal, which has a fraction of its powers. The tier would go like this

The One Above All
The Living Tribunal
Heart of the Universe
M-Body of the Living Tribunal
Infinity Gauntlet
Cosmological Points (Eternity, Death, Infinity, Oblivion)
etc.

The Phoenix is the summation of all life (retconned into psionic energy now, I believe) in the past, present, and future. Furthermore, there's no real proof that Phoenix is above the Living Tribunal. Whoever GalacticStorm is, he or she is most probably lying.

To answer the question on who wins the death match, it's Thanos with the HOTU.

Sorry if I sound harsh.

Rice Ball
04-21-2006, 07:24 AM
What do you Mean by M Body of the LT?

I'm sure you've read Marvel:The End and seen the part where Eternity/Infinity and the Living Tribunal were absorbed. Where was it said that wasn't the LT in his full glory?

Comic Book Guy
04-21-2006, 08:11 AM
There is a race of abstract beings from the Dimension of Manifestation. Known as the Manifestations, they serve the cosmic entities of the Marvel omniverse by creating M-Bodies for them. These M-Bodies are proxies or avatars for cosmic entities to act through when they themselves can not attend. An exmaple of cosmic being (or race, in this case) who uses these bodies are the Celestials, who can manifest themselves at different places at the same time.

Now, the Living Tribunal is slightly special. He is to keep the balance of the multiverse. Thus, within each universe is a M-Body of the Living Tribunal. The actual Living Tribunal himself has authority and powers that would shake the entire multiverse, as he is responsible for threats on a multiversal scale. If there was an appearance made by the actual Living Tribunal in all his glory, it would have to be in DC vs. Marvel. And even then, his abilities were dwarfed by the Brothers and DC vs. Marvel was never canon.

For clarification, in the Marvel The End #6, Thanos destroyed the 616 universe. However, he was unable to leave the now absent 616 universe, nor sense anything beyond it. Adam Warlock's appearance surprised him greatly. Thus, since the Living Tribunal exists and works on a multiversal scale, we can safely say that he's still alive and working. And if you think why did the Living Tribunal did not confront Thanos after, it had no reason. The 616 universe was gone, and therefore no longer in the Marvel multiverse.

Rice Ball
04-21-2006, 08:23 AM
Firstly what use is the LT if he never appears, why didn't he confront thanos when he had the chance instead of leaving it to a M-Body who was very much inferiour to Thanos.

He had already judged Thanos but didn't use his full power to backup his judgement? that doesn't sound very likely tbh :amuse

And also how do you know HOTU powers are weaker than LT? What proof can you bring to this apart from guess work?

Id
04-21-2006, 10:38 PM
Um.....Primal Force = LT.

But the feat's done by Thanos w/HOTU was the single greatest display of power second or next to Jean when she stop the destruction of the Multiverse.

Comic Book Guy
04-22-2006, 02:26 PM
Nearly every cosmic being possess an M-Body; it's how they manage to be at more than two places at once if they want to.

Look at Thanos with the HOTU. He was one with the 616 universe. In his absorbtion/destruction, he was left with an empty void. Adam Warlock comes in, outside of the 616 universe, when Thanos could not feel anything beyond the now gone 616 universe.

LT exists in the whole of the multiverse, due to his role of keeping its balance. To kill him in one universe only eliminates his M-Body of that universe.

Firstly what use is the LT if he never appears, why didn't he confront thanos when he had the chance instead of leaving it to a M-Body who was very much inferiour to Thanos.

A Living Tribunal M-Body is responsible for the balance of the universe its in. The REAL Living Tribunal, lording over the multiverse, will appear if say, there was a threat that threatens the entirety of the multiverse like DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths.

He had already judged Thanos but didn't use his full power to backup his judgement? that doesn't sound very likely tbh

His judgment has been overruled before, by Korvac (I think). Then again, we could chalk this up to LT's M-Body.

Rice Ball
04-22-2006, 04:20 PM
A Living Tribunal M-Body is responsible for the balance of the universe its in. The REAL Living Tribunal, lording over the multiverse, will appear if say, there was a threat that threatens the entirety of the multiverse like DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths..

So your saying the LT doesn't interfear even when he makes a judgement and his M body is unable to backup that judgement with force. No offence but that doesn't sound too much like a cosmic judge.

Can you tell me where you got his information from? Which comics discribe this?


His judgment has been overruled before, by Korvac (I think). Then again, we could chalk this up to LT's M-Body.

In a What-If comic yes which isn't canon :) and again nothing about an m-body.

Comic Book Guy
04-22-2006, 09:21 PM
Yes, LT doesn't interfere even when his M-Body is unable to support his judgment. Yeah, he's not much of a tribunal.

The "Quasar" series mentions this. Issue #37 to #40, give or take an issue.

Comic Book Guy
04-25-2006, 06:46 PM
Alrighty. Done a bit of researching.

With the Phoenix Force now retconned as the summation of psionic energy of all the realities of the multiverse, against the HOTU Thanos, I say it would be a draw. From what we seen of Thanos HOTU, he was unable to act out of the 616 universe; Phoenix Force is a multiversal force, and White Crown being its peak.

Basically, to kill the Phoenix Force in its entirety, one must eliminate all psionic energy of the multiverse.

Not sure if HOTU Thanos is killable, or whether HOTU > or < Phoenix Force of the White Crown, so I say its a draw.

Id
04-25-2006, 07:05 PM
I think the Primal Force itself (Phoenix Force for others) Is greater then the HOTU.

Since PF does act at a mulitverse scale.
And Phoenix did stop the destruction of the mulitverse, by jump starting the unstable M-Kran crystale (which was about to destroy the entire Mulity Verse)

On top of that Niether Primal Force or Phoenix have had to attend any of the Judgements LT has, the way other minor cosmics has.

And has bin shown to be above Eternity, Infinity, Galactus as well as other minor cosmics.

So I think its safe to assume that Primal Force>HOTU.
Phoenix Of The White Crown => Thanos HOTU.

Rice Ball
04-25-2006, 07:23 PM
It depends where the Battle Takes place, if it takes place in the 616 universe then Thanos wins.

Id
04-25-2006, 07:59 PM
It depends where the Battle Takes place, if it takes place in the 616 universe then Thanos wins.

What buble is tring to say is....Thanos wins regardles of the location, situation, and who it is!:P

(Unles Squirl Girl appears)

Comic Book Guy
04-25-2006, 08:25 PM
I think the Primal Force itself (Phoenix Force for others) Is greater then the HOTU.

Since PF does act at a mulitverse scale.
And Phoenix did stop the destruction of the mulitverse, by jump starting the unstable M-Kran crystale (which was about to destroy the entire Mulity Verse)

The Mkrann Crystal is the nexus for all realities, also the holder of a neutron galaxy (or universe, I forget which).

On top of that Niether Primal Force or Phoenix have had to attend any of the Judgements LT has, the way other minor cosmics has.

Well, I think that the Phoenix Force is exempt; it's literally a force of nature itself, not a anthropomorphic manifestation like Eternity, Death, etc.[/i]

And has bin shown to be above Eternity, Infinity, Galactus as well as other minor cosmics.[i/]

Well, I don't think so. One thing, it's been long debated of who's more powerful; Phoenix and Galactus, since they did actually meet and did battle. It's generally agreed that Galactus is more powerful than the Phoenix. However, White Crown is unknown.

Can you help elaborate Id?

[i]So I think its safe to assume that Primal Force>HOTU.
Phoenix Of The White Crown => Thanos HOTU.

Yeah. Unless there's a Heart of the Multiverse. Which they all be screwed.

And should Squirrel Girl fail, look no further than Mr. Satan (Hercule) of DBZ. His jobbing aura is so strong, it's bound to stretch across the entire omniverses.

Id
04-25-2006, 08:53 PM
Ok I wanted to sum up everything I said into a single post. Why? Cus I can and Im bored.

The “Primal Force, and The “Living Tribunal” are the only two cosmic entities that have bin known to act an in Multi-Verse Scale.

The LT, has authority to maintain a balance throughout out the multi-verse. Adding/Stripping powers at a cosmic scale. Destroying/Sealing universe and other lesser cosmic’s who he deems as a threat. He remains constant thru out all and judges as he sees best, disregarding any emotion as if a computer is following the programs command.

The PF, on the other hand is the force of destruction/creation throughout all of the MU at a multi-verse scale, as well. And if it wishes to when, the “PF” sees its time to end a universe, the PF. has the ability to choose who is going to be the survivors, and as well as appointing new cosmic entities.

The LT, has bin deemed superior to the PF simply because there is no simple humanoid/intelligent being as a host, the way PF is. He is simply a cosmic entity who was created by an even higher Power, and is as old as time itself. Its job is to simply job, with no emotional attachments to avoid making mistakes, and making the best out of hard decisions. Making him a form of Nature to the MU.

The Primal Force, on the other hand has the same power of class. The LT did not create the PF. The PF was created by a higher power to follow the course of Nature of the MU as well. The PF itself does not have emotions or feeling like the LT. But is in charge of Creating Not judging. And the reason behind the PF choosing a host, is so it can do a better job recreating/coordinating the new MU over the old. (it needs the raw emotions such as compsion, love, hate and so on that can only be obtained from a host/avatar.)

Now if someone is to be wilding such high power, why do they have such high Highs, and such low Low’s? mostly due to PIS, CIS. Keep in mind it’s a comic book not a science book. (I mean it is a comic book that breaks the laws of Physics and thermodynamics on a regular basis.)

Can LT challenge the Primal Force? Apparently no.

When the PF decides to Coordinate the MU, Can it replace the LT over another abstract? Apparently no.

But Here is a better question….. Can LT strip the powers of White Crown Phoenix, If he deems it as a cosmic threat? This is something that started to bug me.

I am not sure.
WCP is the closet thing we have to a host completely merging to the Primal Force itself. I don’t think LT can, since the Jean is protected by the “Primal Force” and LT can not undo or challenge the PF at will, (remember I deemed them as equal.)

And that was the point of my thread was to see if the LT has ever challenged and succeeded in undoing the will of the PF. So far I haven’t gotten my answer.


Any how here are some scans and feats to back up my claims.
The Watcher claims the PF is second only to the “Creator”
http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/5126/uxm137pg018bb.th.jpg (http://img478.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm137pg018bb.jpg)[/QUOTE]

Other cosmic that praise her above theirs.
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9022/xmenforever6p161zq5az.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p161zq5az.jpg)[/QUOTE]



Proof that PF does choses who gets to survive the big Bang/Crush and who becomes a new abstract of the MU.
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/681/ohotmuff05streetsamuraidcp103t.jpg (http://imageshack.us)[/QUOTE]

Here we see Jean (White Crown Phoenix) holding the MU at the palm of her hand, and altering reality as she sees fit. Also other hosts/avatar from other timelines and or different MU’s to prove that the Primal force does act at a mulit-verse Scale by appointing a host to weild the PF in her/his universe.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/566/8a7ed.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8a7ed.jpg)


http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4705/8b8oh.th.jpg (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8b8oh.jpg)

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2179/95ev.th.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=95ev.jpg)

Comic Book Guy
04-25-2006, 09:11 PM
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. White Crown Phoenix Force is something I missed, and only heard of during the Endsond mini-series.

You might want to check the Earth Born Strongest Mutant thread, which you bumped. I added my two cents.

Id
04-25-2006, 09:14 PM
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. White Crown Phoenix Force is something I missed, and only heard of during the Endsond mini-series.

You might want to check the Earth Born Strongest Mutant thread, which you bumped. I added my two cents.

Yeah me and Arilou had a long debate about LT vs PF...It was a good debate thou.

I checked out your post. But I wont be doing any updates to it. (That Tier List gave me headaces)

Rice Ball
04-26-2006, 03:57 AM
What buble is tring to say is....Thanos wins regardles of the location, situation, and who it is!:P

(Unles Squirl Girl appears)

Leave my Fanboisam alone :amuse

Theres no Doubt about it, if you give Thanos powers like that hes going to own pretty much anyone he faces no matter how powerful they are :)

Dark Evangel
04-26-2006, 05:44 AM
Where was the Phoenix Force in THE END saga? Nowhere to be found. White Crown Phoenix was impressive, but Thanos with THOTU ended everything within a blink of an eye. Which probably included The Phoenix Force.

Comic Book Guy
04-26-2006, 03:17 PM
Most likely, since it exists on a multiversal scale, the Phoenix Force moved elsewhere.

Id
04-26-2006, 04:01 PM
Where was the Phoenix Force in THE END saga? Nowhere to be found. White Crown Phoenix was impressive, but Thanos with THOTU ended everything within a blink of an eye. Which probably included The Phoenix Force.

The host of the PF can be damaged and killed even under the influence of the PF.
But the PF its self will never die.
The PF will simply will itself back to existence and search for a new host.

Rice Ball
04-26-2006, 05:01 PM
Victory to Thanos via Ring out then?

If he can keep killing any host that enters the 616 universe.

tHotU
06-27-2006, 09:30 AM
Look at this:
Ultimately, Adam Warlock--who had been outside time and space alongside Atleza Langunn and Gamora and was thus spared the destruction--met with Thanos, convincing him that he should sacrifice his newfound power and his very life to restore existence. Thanos did so, using the Heart's power to re-create the multiverse bereft of the flaw that would have destroyed it.

In his final moments, Thanos realized he had been manipulated by a being of supreme power to sacrifice his existence in his stead to save the realities from this flaw.

The real name of the heart is Heart of the Infinite. And yes he was the strongest being of all time in Marvel comics.

1. Thanos possessing the Heart / TOAA
2. The Amalgam Brother's (Marvel and DC, like brother's)
3. Pre-retcon Beyonder
4. The Phoenix force
5. Living Tribunal

Thanos was stated to have the power of TOAA.
And with TOAA's power he could do anything that TOAA could, for example unmake the Marvel universe.

Pre-retcon Beyoder was stated to be able to destroy the multiverses many hundred times over. And he did own Living Tribunal.
It was a Manifastation body, but L. Tribunal do not do anything unless TOAA comands him. And when he's order to do something, he uses all his power to serve the comand.

Thanos ereased every reality. Anyone that can take L. Tribunal have the power to destroy the multiverse.
There was just one "heart of the universe" (don't be fooled by the name, it's multiversal power).
God manipulated Thanos to take it, like he manipulated Adam Warlock to go outside the multiverses. So that he would see Thanos when he returned and convice him to destroy this flaw (HotU) of the multiverses.

Heart of the Universe equals TOAA's power.
And he was stronger than Pre-retcon Beyonder who could destroy the multiverses "many hundred times over".

Spacey
06-27-2006, 11:58 AM
Look at this:
Ultimately, Adam Warlock--who had been outside time and space alongside Atleza Langunn and Gamora and was thus spared the destruction--met with Thanos, convincing him that he should sacrifice his newfound power and his very life to restore existence. Thanos did so, using the Heart's power to re-create the multiverse bereft of the flaw that would have destroyed it.

In his final moments, Thanos realized he had been manipulated by a being of supreme power to sacrifice his existence in his stead to save the realities from this flaw.

The real name of the heart is Heart of the Infinite. And yes he was the strongest being of all time in Marvel comics.

1. Thanos possessing the Heart / TOAA
2. The Amalgam Brother's (Marvel and DC, like brother's)
3. Pre-retcon Beyonder
4. The Phoenix force
5. Living Tribunal

Thanos was stated to have the power of TOAA.
And with TOAA's power he could do anything that TOAA could, for example unmake the Marvel universe.

Pre-retcon Beyoder was stated to be able to destroy the multiverses many hundred times over. And he did own Living Tribunal.
It was a Manifastation body, but L. Tribunal do not do anything unless TOAA comands him. And when he's order to do something, he uses all his power to serve the comand.

Thanos ereased every reality. Anyone that can take L. Tribunal have the power to destroy the multiverse.
There was just one "heart of the universe" (don't be fooled by the name, it's multiversal power).
God manipulated Thanos to take it, like he manipulated Adam Warlock to go outside the multiverses. So that he would see Thanos when he returned and convice him to destroy this flaw (HotU) of the multiverses.

Heart of the Universe equals TOAA's power.
And he was stronger than Pre-retcon Beyonder who could destroy the multiverses "many hundred times over".

Okay I don't know who you are but you're wrong it was never stated that the heart of the universe had infinite power nor that it held control of multiverses it was said to be the power core of the universe not the multiverse. And no Thanos was certainly not powerful enough to rival TOAA

tHotU
06-27-2006, 01:59 PM
Okay I don't know who you are but you're wrong it was never stated that the heart of the universe had infinite power nor that it held control of multiverses it was said to be the power core of the universe not the multiverse. And no Thanos was certainly not powerful enough to rival TOAA
It was stated very clearly that Heart of the Universe was the essence and power of God. Anyone who possesses it becomes the TOAA.

Since he had it he possessed a threat to TOAA, and therefore L. Tribunal attacked him.

You could also see that he absorbed all the abstracts in the Multiverses.

TOAA, is often said to be the writer/ author, and it was clearly as hell that Jim Starlin's favorite Thanos would become the strongest one there is.

Comic Book Guy
06-27-2006, 02:17 PM
Yet, if it really was a multiversal power, why was the reality with Atleza, Adam Warlock, and Gamora spared?

And Thanos didn't erase every reality. Only the 616 universe. Thanos says this in the first page of the first issue. Even Death existed on other planes of existence, as stated by Adam Warlock.

tHotU
06-27-2006, 03:14 PM
How to say this:
TOAA is the god of Marvel multiverses, thus he just control the multiverses of marvel.
But his power does not affect the Omniverse (DC-multiverse, Naruto universe, dragonball universe ect.)
Warlock who used the soulgem to open a portal could have connected it to another multiverse or some kind of cubic dimention not even TOAA controlled.

It was stated that HotU wields the powerof TOAA.
That was also why TOAA removed it, by manipulating Thanos to do so.

TOAA knows everything, he knew that if he isolated Adam from his power he would convice Thanos to use the power of HotU to destroy it.
It wasent the remake of the multiverse that killed Thanos, it was by destroying such power artifact.

Eternity and Infinity have the power to eradicate a universe.
Everyone above them have the power as well.

If I got it right it works like this:
TOAA is all energy in the multiverse, with energy you can make atom's and therefore character's like Spider-man, Beyonder ect.

When Thanos became TOAA he absorbed all the TOAA was therefore the abstracts and everything else.

tHotU
06-27-2006, 03:18 PM
Thanos says this in the first page of the first issue. Even Death existed on other planes of existence, as stated by Adam Warlock.
First page, first issue?
Thanos didn't even know about the heart of the infinite by then...
You make it sound like he said it after the destroying the multiverses.

Comic Book Guy
06-27-2006, 03:33 PM
First page, first issue. He states he destroyed the universe.

6th issue, he reiterates this.

Every issue opens with Thanos narrating past events.

tHotU
06-27-2006, 04:12 PM
First page, first issue. He states he destroyed the universe.

6th issue, he reiterates this.

Every issue opens with Thanos narrating past events.
It doesnt matter how much he destroyed really.

Almost every forum (exept this one) knows that Thanos destroy the multiverse.

But it doesnt really matter, HotU wsa the power of OAA.
Therefore Everyone who wields it have OAA's power.

Thanos had OAA's power, he is basicly the one above all.

It was stated; he can destroy a pair of pants for I care, he had OAA's power he could do anything.

Comic Book Guy
06-27-2006, 04:49 PM
Almost every forum (exept this one) knows that Thanos destroy the multiverse.

Such as?

I daresay, unless I see their arguments, they're ill-informed.

But it doesnt really matter, HotU wsa the power of OAA.
Therefore Everyone who wields it have OAA's power.

Thanos had OAA's power, he is basicly the one above all.

It was stated; he can destroy a pair of pants for I care, he had OAA's power he could do anything.

Could do anything? Restoring the universe wiped him from existence.

Again, TOAA is a multiversal god, since the Marvel omniverse is a multiverse. HOTU is only universal.

Spacey
06-27-2006, 06:27 PM
Almost every forum (exept this one) knows that Thanos destroy the multiverse.

Such as?

I daresay, unless I see their arguments, they're ill-informed.

But it doesnt really matter, HotU wsa the power of OAA.
Therefore Everyone who wields it have OAA's power.

Thanos had OAA's power, he is basicly the one above all.

It was stated; he can destroy a pair of pants for I care, he had OAA's power he could do anything.

Could do anything? Restoring the universe wiped him from existence.

Again, TOAA is a multiversal god, since the Marvel omniverse is a multiverse. HOTU is only universal.

Yeah well obviously you're right, this guy doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

Comic Book Guy
06-27-2006, 06:36 PM
Who?

Me?

Rice Ball
06-27-2006, 06:41 PM
I'm a massive Thanos fan, but i can't find anywhere in the series 'The End' where it says thanos destroyed the Multiverse. Its documented that he destroyed the 616 universe twice but his powers didn't seem to reach further than that (proof being Warlock was still alive)

Would it be possible for you to show me a few scans with this stated, i'd love to see proof of this but it didn't seem to be the case :(

Comic Book Guy
06-27-2006, 06:44 PM
I posted scans for my argument in the other thread, Thanos vs. Lucifer. CHeck there Rice Ball.

Spacey
06-27-2006, 06:47 PM
Who?

Me?

No of course not, this thotu dude

Rice Ball
06-27-2006, 06:48 PM
I posted scans for my argument in the other thread, Thanos vs. Lucifer. CHeck there Rice Ball.

I know, i own that comic :)
I was just willing to be corrected if that was possible :)

tHotU
06-28-2006, 05:01 PM
Jim Starin stated in an interview that thanos now had replaced the God of Marvel.

Thanos knew of the dimention beyond the universe (multiverse).

I also own the seires:
Thanos destroy every Manifastial body of the abstracts (such as LT, E and I)
Thanos absorb the real abstracts.
Thanos erease everything.
Adam walks trough the portal.
Thanos: How?

Thanos knew that with the soul-gem Adam could walk through dimentions.
But why was he then suprised that he had survive?

Heart of the Infinite is indeed the true power and essence of God.
Everyone who can use it can do anything TOAA can.

Some even states Thanos above TOAA since he replaced him.

Spacey
06-28-2006, 05:04 PM
Jim Starin stated in an interview that thanos now had replaced the God of Marvel.

Thanos knew of the dimention beyond the universe (multiverse).

I also own the seires:
Thanos destroy every Manifastial body of the abstracts (such as LT, E and I)
Thanos absorb the real abstracts.
Thanos erease everything.
Adam walks trough the portal.
Thanos: How?

Thanos knew that with the soul-gem Adam could walk through dimentions.
But why was he then suprised that he had survive?

Heart of the Infinite is indeed the true power and essence of God.
Everyone who can use it can do anything TOAA can.

Some even states Thanos above TOAA since he replaced him.

Once again you're saying things that you can't back up

tHotU
06-28-2006, 05:09 PM
My scanner is a bit wierd but i bet someone else could post one of the many images that says:
HotU is the power and essence of God, or I Thanos have now become the God.

But I think I can link the intwerview.
1 min

tHotU
06-28-2006, 05:20 PM
DB: Yes, very good, thank you. I’d like to start the interview by asking how do you do a Thanos series when you’ve killed him in the last one?

JS: Well, that was the challenge. To start off with is the fact that I did sort of leave him as either he was dead, or he’d just gone through something that no other character in the universe had ever done. And so I opted for the latter and when he was, basically he was God, it never said that he was actually going to go and die; he just said that was it. And, as a result, he put himself back together, along with the rest of the universe, but has gone through a bit of an epiphany while he was at it. And the series starts off finding Thanos deciding that it hasn’t worked being a conqueror and all that, so he’s going to give the lighter side of life a little bit of a shot. Try and be a good guy. But, of course, he’s Thanos, so, well you can just imagine how well that’s going to work. <laughter>

Whole interview at: http://www.adelaidecomicsandbooks.com/starlin.htm

tHotU
06-28-2006, 05:24 PM
You were right about the part that he just ereased the universe.
Sorry for the confusion.
But it didnt said he couldent destroy more?
Maybe he just needed to destroy one universe to feel complete.

Comic Book Guy
06-29-2006, 04:19 PM
Jim Starin stated in an interview that thanos now had replaced the God of Marvel.

You do realize, unless specified, Marvel refers to the 616 continuum.

I also own the seires:

So do I. How do you think I posted the scans?

Thanos destroy every Manifastial body of the abstracts (such as LT, E and I)

LT 616 M-Body, and Infinity 616 M-Body (new info from the Marvel Handbook 2006). Plus, Thanos didn't absorb Death.

Thanos absorb the real abstracts.

Not all. Other Infinty's remain, and so does Death. Other Galacti of other universes remain.

Thanos erease everything.

Universe.

Adam walks trough the portal.
Thanos: How?

Thanos knew that with the soul-gem Adam could walk through dimentions.
But why was he then suprised that he had survive?

You defeated your own point. By saying that Adam can walk through dimensions, there was still something existing that Thanos did not absorb.

Heart of the Infinite is indeed the true power and essence of God.

Not TOAA. Universal power only.

Everyone who can use it can do anything TOAA can.

HOTI/HOTU can not go on a multiversal scale.

Some even states Thanos above TOAA since he replaced him.

Like who? Not many people are aware or able to connect and relate the Supreme God and the multiverse together.

And to mention Jim Starlin, god of the 616 continuum. Not the multiverse.

But it didnt said he couldent destroy more?
Maybe he just needed to destroy one universe to feel complete.

No, he said he wanted to absorb all that threaten his reign. Thus, he absorbed everything to the best of his capability, which would be the 616 universe. Not the multiverse.

So, are we clear? The HOTU/HOTI is a universal power?

tHotU
06-29-2006, 07:48 PM
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238830

Comic Book Guy
06-29-2006, 08:17 PM
There are only 3 character's that ever beat the Living Tribunal.

Note, the ACTUAL Living Tribunal has never been seen. All we have seen up until now is its 616 M-Body. Look into Quasar #37 to #40.

Thanos w/ THOTU

Absorbed the 616 M-Body.

Pre-retcon Beyonder

Debatable. I'm not sure whether the M-Body concept was introduced by that time.

The Amalgam Brother's (Well they are a team so...)

Debatable. Only the 616 universe was involved to oppose the DC universe. In addition, DC vs. Marvel is non-canon.


Well who of these character would be the most powerful?

Either the Amalgam Brother or the HOTU Thanos.

Thanos with the Heart of the Universe wiped out every being in the Marvel Multiverse in a blink of an eye.

Incorrect. They really need to be corrected of this.

Pre-retcon Beyonder also ***** slapped the Living Tribunal but not as fast, but it was stated that he could destroy the multiverses a twohunderd times over.

I can understand the universe, but the multiverse two hundred times over? Where was this ever stated in what issue?

The Amalgam Brother's They are actually supose to symbolize DC and Marvel, they fought the Spectre and the Living Tribunal successfuly.

It's a messy issue. We know that the Spectre is very, very seldom backed by the Presence fully. Furthermore, we don't know whether it's the Living Tribunal 616 M-Body or not. Thank god it's non-canon.

Well who of these beings possesses most power?
[i]What do you think?

HOTU Thanos did not destroy the Marvel multiverse.

That said, I'd probably equate HOTU Thanos with the Marvel Brother. The Marvel Brother embodied the main marvel universe (616) while the HOTU granted omnipotence (or, to be more specific, unlimited power in the 616 continuum).

Endless Mike
06-29-2006, 08:42 PM
In one X-men issue it was retconned that the Brothers were just set up as a test by LT and Spectre.

Comic Book Guy
06-29-2006, 09:01 PM
True. Due to retcon, the Spectre and the Living Tribunal were the ones who actually initiated the crossover, not the Brothers.

Spacey
06-30-2006, 03:48 AM
Yeah and Beyonder they fuck-conned Beyonder as well with pretty much the same thing. Pre-retcon Beyonder was said to be a multiversal threat though while Thanos with HotU was only universal

superbatman86
07-01-2006, 01:53 AM
The End isn't cannon.It's not so much that The Beyonder was depowered but that everyone else was impowered.Like CBG said the concept of M-bodies wasn't even introduced yet.

Id
07-01-2006, 10:39 AM
Back to the subject at hand.

Thanos w/ HOTU can do what ever he wants to a Universal Scale

WC Phoenix can do what ever she wants at a Universal Scale.

Best Thanos Feat. - He took on everyone in the 616 universe and destroyed it.
Note Phoenix was not involved in this event. Even the M Body LT could not do a thing to stop him.

Best Phoenix feat - Reshaped the 616 universe to her likeing. Jump stated the M - Kran crystal that would have bin a threat to the entire Multiverse. M Body LT does not have the authority to stop Phoenix from accomplishing her goal.

To me it seems as a tie. But I it comes down to which you think was a better display of power or feat.

Rice Ball
07-01-2006, 11:21 AM
Pheonix was beaten
Thanos wasn't

I guess that says it all :D

tHotU
07-09-2006, 05:31 AM
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=410642&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

This is a page long, but it actually proves that Thanos had "Omni"-reality power and it have scans.
Omni = Greek; everything there is,
related to the Omniverse

Comic Book Guy
07-13-2006, 12:51 AM
And yet, Thanos said he destroyed the universe, and other 'universal' related terms, 6 pages in total I believe.

Omni reality. . . everything there is to the 616 reality.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 01:42 PM
And yet, Thanos said he destroyed the universe, and other 'universal' related terms, 6 pages in total I believe.

Omni reality. . . everything there is to the 616 reality.
Omnireality = all realities
Omniverse = all universes

It's not called Omniverses.

You cannot say Omnirealities, since than you mean that there is more than one omni reality.

Marvel Universe will be used to indicate the entire Marvel Multiverse; the collection of all continuities within Marvel Comics publications.

I think you cannot say someone is right or wrong here, because of the many error's the author did.
Thanos with IG: "The all the universe are like clay in my hand's."
Thanos with IG = Multiversal: http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igmakesyousupremeinallrealitie.jpg

Endless Mike
07-14-2006, 01:52 PM
All that panel shows is Thanos himself declaring himself to be the most powerful being ever. He's obviously just bragging and letting his ego get to him, since it has been proven that beings like the Living Tribunal are above him even with the IG.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 01:58 PM
All that panel shows is Thanos himself declaring himself to be the most powerful being ever. He's obviously just bragging and letting his ego get to him, since it has been proven that beings like the Living Tribunal are above him even with the IG.
I think that deep inside he knew how powerful he was.
So did Magus:
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igcontrolsall63pf.jpg

He could destroy one reality like that, what would he end up than, Oblivion?

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:00 PM
Marvel Universe will be used to indicate the entire Marvel Multiverse; the collection of all continuities within Marvel Comics publications.

Yes, in OUR REAL WORLD.

Do you think they would say UNIVERSE to describe their MULTIVERSE?

I think you cannot say someone is right or wrong here, because of the many error's the author did.
Thanos with IG: "The all the universe are like clay in my hand's."
Thanos with IG = Multiversal: http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?i...llrealitie.jpg

Did you even read the Infinity Gauntlet?

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:01 PM
I think that deep inside he knew how powerful he was.

So could be said for the same for every villain who makes such claims.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:03 PM
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternityaspectisallreality32ro.jpg
Maybe Thanos would lie, but the Living Tribunal? I think not.

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:05 PM
. . . That's as vague as it can get.

Curious.

Did you even read the Infinity Gauntlet, or are we just going against another forum's argument?

And did that forum even heard of the 7th Gem, the Ego (aka Dimensional) Gem?

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:11 PM
. . . That's as vague as it can get.

Curious.

Did you even read the Infinity Gauntlet, or are we just going against another forum's argument?
No, I haven't, does this mean I cannot use the fact's of the Infinity Crusade/Gauntlet I find?
You said you've read IG, but I see your memory is failing you.
http://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igoverallthatis4oe.jpg

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:17 PM
No, I haven't,

There's only so much one could know second-hand.

does this mean I cannot use the fact's of the Infinity Crusade/Gauntlet I find?

Without knowing the whole story or how events actually led up to them and what occurred after, how do you know that your interpretation is true?

You said you've read IG, but I see your memory is failing you.
http://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?i...lthatis4oe.jpg

All that is.

You do know how vague that terms sounds?

But if you question my memory, then I'll re-read my Infinity Gauntlet issues then.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:20 PM
Do so, and keep in mind, everything the I.G. can do, the H.o.t.U can do it an infinity times better.

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:22 PM
Do so, and keep in mind, everything the I.G. can do, the H.o.t.U can do it an infinity times better.

Yes, which ultimately led to the destruction of the universe.

Even if the Infinity Gauntlet was multiversal, with the HotU > IG, it's been retconned to a universal power.

You read Marvel: The End?

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:25 PM
Do so, and keep in mind, everything the I.G. can do, the H.o.t.U can do it an infinity times better.

Yes, which ultimately led to the destruction of the universe.

Even if the Infinity Gauntlet was multiversal, with the HotU > IG, it's been retconned to a universal power.

You read Marvel: The End?
1, I have read all the 6 issues of Marvel the End.
2, It's like saing that Pre-crisis Superman have been retconded because of Superman Prime.
3, Destruction of the MU...

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:30 PM
1, I have read all the 6 issues of Marvel the End.

Notice the multiple uses of the terms 'universe'.

2, It's like saing that Pre-crisis Superman have been retconded because of Superman Prime.

Well. . .

Thanks to the retcons of both Infinite Crisis and All-Star Superman, Pre-Crisis IS Superman Prime, and vice-versa.

Check out All-Star Superman #2.

3, Destruction of the MU...

616 - the universe which all fans are most familiar with.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:32 PM
Hmm it was never stated to be the 616.
It could as well be the MU

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:35 PM
Thanos has stated the universe to be destroyed multiple times.

I sincerely doubt Thanos would describe the multiverse as a universe.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:39 PM
Thanos has stated the universe to be destroyed multiple times.

I sincerely doubt Thanos would describe the multiverse as a universe.
- Maybe he changed after getting the ultimate power of the Multiverse.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:40 PM
Look i can't explain it as good as Mr. Master, you should have read that 30 page thread.

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:49 PM
Maybe he changed after getting the ultimate power of the Multiverse.

Or maybe it wasn't the power of the multiverse he got.

You kind of figure, with a multiversal power, how is it that one would go crazy and try to absorb everything they can, why is it that a universe was absorbed?

Look i can't explain it as good as Mr. Master, you should have read that 30 page thread.

Seriously.

Instead of trying to use someone else's argument directly, try to come up with your own interpretting from theirs at least.

And there are other things I do beside sitting down here and posting. 'm trying to conduct a forum tournament, I'm doing tier reasearch, I'm reading more comics to expand what I know, and it's the summer, where I'm free from education.

And even as a comic book guy, there's a lot in that thread to digest.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:54 PM
Seriously.

Instead of trying to use someone else's argument directly, try to come up with your own interpretting from theirs at least.

And there are other things I do beside sitting down here and posting. 'm trying to conduct a forum tournament, I'm doing tier reasearch, I'm reading more comics to expand what I know, and it's the summer, where I'm free from education.

And even as a comic book guy, there's a lot in that thread to digest.
No what your intend to say is:
It's easier to pick on you than some guy that could sketch the comics himself with just his memory, some paper and a pencil.

I didn't say that you should qutoe him, just read it... at least the 3 first pages

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:56 PM
Even if the Infinity Gauntlet was multiversal, with the HotU > IG, it's been retconned to a universal power.

No, your wrong.
HotU >> LT >> IG
So if IG is multiversal, so is HOTU
LT couldent turn it off, like IG.
HOTU satisfied Thanos more than IG, ect. ect.

tHotU
07-14-2006, 02:59 PM
IG made Thanos replace Eternity
http://img436.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ig15oc.jpg

HOTU made him replace God/TOAA

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 02:59 PM
No what your intend to say is:
It's easier to pick on you than some guy that could sketch the comics himself with just his memory, some paper and a pencil.

Says the person who uses an argument from another forum which is not his to support his point, effectively having me to debate in another argument just to prove you wrong.

Plagiarism, or desperation?

As if I didn't have enough on my plate. . . I don't like it, but I read.

I didn't say that you should qutoe him, just read it... at least the 3 first pages

To do this properly, I have to read all 30 pages and see where it's going. I rather not do things halfway, and go from there.

Comic Book Guy
07-14-2006, 03:02 PM
No, your wrong.
HotU >> LT >> IG

M-Bodies; Quasar #37 to #40.

So if IG is multiversal, so is HOTU

Yes, the HOTU > IG. But no, the Gauntlet is not multiversal.

LT couldent turn it off, like IG.

616 M-Body.

HOTU satisfied Thanos more than IG, ect. ect.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

And now, I'm off to re-read the IG while simulataneously reading the thread to cross-reference.

And since we're bringing in other people to do this, PM the one known as Rice Ball. Fair's fair.

tHotU
07-15-2006, 11:27 AM
No, your wrong.
HotU >> LT >> IG

M-Bodies; Quasar #37 to #40.

Yes but it's just the abstract's concrete form.

So if IG is multiversal, so is HOTU

Yes, the HOTU > IG. But no, the Gauntlet is not multiversal.

Yes it is, Magus could destroy one reality like that, Thanos stated that all the universes was nothing but clay in his hands, also that it had power of all there is and L. Tribunal said that Eternity wanted the gem's turned off becuase he had been replaced. And yes, Eternity is multiversal.

LT couldent turn it off, like IG.

616 M-Body.

Who's power do you think the L. Tribunal's M-body depends on?

HOTU satisfied Thanos more than IG, ect. ect.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

And now, I'm off to re-read the IG while simulataneously reading the thread to cross-reference.

Good.

And since we're bringing in other people to do this, PM the one known as Rice Ball. Fair's fair.

Yes, the more the better, proof allways trupms speculation.

Comic Book Guy
07-15-2006, 04:39 PM
Yes but it's just the abstract's concrete form.

Not really. Some M-Bodies possess a fraction of their source's powers. Case in point, the Living Tribunal 616 M-Body.

Yes it is, Magus could destroy one reality like that, Thanos stated that all the universes was nothing but clay in his hands, also that it had power of all there is and L. Tribunal said that Eternity wanted the gem's turned off becuase he had been replaced. And yes, Eternity is multiversal.

Thanos can claim a lot. Claimed to be god with the Cosmic Cube as well.

Plus, you kind of figure, if the IG Gauntlet was multiversal, what's the use of the 7th Gem, the Dimensional (or Ego) Gem.

And where did you come to the conclusion that Eternity is a multiversal entity?

Who's power do you think the L. Tribunal's M-body depends on?

The Living Tribunal, who oversees the balance of the multiverse.

Good.

I advise you actually read the Gauntlet, instead of following someone else's arguments. Sure, they sound logical, but you really don't know how correctly their interpretations are.

Yes, the more the better, proof allways trupms speculation.

So. . . where is he?

tHotU
07-15-2006, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=Comic Book Guy]Yes but it's just the abstract's concrete form.

Not really. Some M-Bodies possess a fraction of their source's powers. Case in point, the Living Tribunal 616 M-Body.

No, he is the judge, he have the power. The M-body's are nothing but messengers

Yes it is, Magus could destroy one reality like that, Thanos stated that all the universes was nothing but clay in his hands, also that it had power of all there is and L. Tribunal said that Eternity wanted the gem's turned off becuase he had been replaced. And yes, Eternity is multiversal.

Thanos can claim a lot. Claimed to be god with the Cosmic Cube as well.

Plus, you kind of figure, if the IG Gauntlet was multiversal, what's the use of the 7th Gem, the Dimensional (or Ego) Gem.

And where did you come to the conclusion that Eternity is a multiversal entity?

1, Yeah, but magus don't.
2, the Ego gem is simply the gem that manipulates energy, you realize that Warlock was outside the Multiverses (when Thanos destroyed it) with just the Soul gem?
3, Continue reading the forum...
Who's power do you think the L. Tribunal's M-body depends on?

The Living Tribunal, who oversees the balance of the multiverse.

--

Good.

I advise you actually read the Gauntlet, instead of following someone else's arguments. Sure, they sound logical, but you really don't know how correctly their interpretations are.

Yes, I will. It's only a matter of time.

Yes, the more the better, proof allways trupms speculation.

So. . . where is he?
Should I PM them? You know them, I don't...

Comic Book Guy
07-15-2006, 06:49 PM
No, he is the judge, he have the power. The M-body's are nothing but messengers

What are messengers without power and authority?

1, Yeah, but magus don't.
2, the Ego gem is simply the gem that manipulates energy, you realize that Warlock was outside the Multiverses (when Thanos destroyed it) with just the Soul gem?

Dimensional energy.

3, Continue reading the forum...

I have to read ALL the forum. And I don't have a super-comprehending reading speed.

In addition, I have to reacquire Infinity War and Infinity Crusade.

Should I PM them? You know them, I don't...

PM him.

tHotU
07-15-2006, 09:40 PM
[QUOTE=Comic Book Guy]No, he is the judge, he have the power. The M-body's are nothing but messengers

What are messengers without power and authority?
Simply an illution... It's the power of the abstract who actually comfrim the judgment

1, Yeah, but magus don't.
2, the Ego gem is simply the gem that manipulates energy, you realize that Warlock was outside the Multiverses (when Thanos destroyed it) with just the Soul gem?

Dimensional energy.

Explain that...

3, Continue reading the forum...

I have to read ALL the forum. And I don't have a super-comprehending reading speed.

In addition, I have to reacquire Infinity War and Infinity Crusade.

Should I PM them? You know them, I don't...

PM him.

Why? If he actually would bring up some points, than you do it.

Comic Book Guy
07-16-2006, 01:16 AM
Simply an illution... It's the power of the abstract who actually comfrim the judgment

Is this your conclusion/reasoning, or Mr. Master's?

It occurred to me, which of these arguments are of your own reasoning and logic processes, and which of these arguments are another poster's from another forums.

Explain that...

You never heard of the 7th Infinity Gem?

Why? If he actually would bring up some points, than you do it.

Done. Now waiting.

The Sentry
08-08-2006, 04:01 PM
but who is stronger Thanos or Phoenix of the white crown. Personally i think Thanos is

tHotU
08-08-2006, 04:15 PM
Phoenix of the White Crown is Dark Phoenix (Jean Grey) after absorbing all the power of a higher plane of reality called; the white room.
It´s simply Jean as Phoenix at her Prime.

Thanos is not really that powerful, He´s Marvel´s version of DC`s Darkseid.
In cosmic power´s he´s about Silver Surfers level, In raw strength he is about Hulk´s level, Inteligence; Probobly one of the smartest being´s in the universe. -- This is how he obtained the artifacts.
He have obtained 3 Very powerful items which have made him omni-potent.

Godhod means that you have all the power of a universe. (http://img189.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igequalgodhood3vc.jpg)

Cosmic Cube -- Made you God over a universe, and anything in it. -- You were bond to (/you were one with) anything in it. (http://img336.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmiccubemakesyougod5st.jpg)

Infinity Gauntlet -- You had the Supreme power of all realities(/universes), even though the gauntlet werent complete (missing the ego gem) (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=igmakesyousupremeinallrealitie.jpg)
However the Living Tribunal were able to turn it off.

The Heart of Infinite -- Made you God over everything in the Marvel Multi-verse. (Thanos was manipulated by TOAA when possessing it) so he had the interlect of TOAA he had the power of TOAA ect. He was TOAA (the one above all) (http://img287.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thoumakesyouomniall7do.jpg)

Comic Book Guy
08-08-2006, 04:22 PM
Please. The Gauntlet is a universal power. Show me a scan where the Gauntlet affected other universes other than the 616 reality.

The Gauntlet doesn't work in the DC universe -- it was never meant to. So, all universes doesn't cut it there.

The Heart of the Universe was a universal power. I already disproved that scan multiple times with universal destruction. In addition, omni-reality meant all reality which meant the universe. The first page of the first issue sums everything up.

And no, Thanos was not 'more intelligent' than TOAA, nor was he a megaversal being/god.

tHotU
08-08-2006, 05:04 PM
And no, Thanos was not 'more intelligent' than TOAA, nor was he a megaversal being/god.
No but he was manipulated by TOAA (higher power/writer).
So basicly the wrtier was him.

And have you ever seen Spider-man TAS 90´s series.
In the end, Spider-carnage is going to destroy every reality (stated by Beyonder) and later formulated by Spider-man like this, He is going to build a bomb that will destroy all reality.
All reality = every reality

Comic Book Guy
08-08-2006, 05:25 PM
No but he was manipulated by TOAA (higher power/writer).
So basicly the wrtier was him.

Contradiction here.

In the end, Spider-carnage is going to destroy every reality (stated by Beyonder) and later formulated by Spider-man like this, He is going to build a bomb that will destroy all reality.
All reality = every reality

Ah. . . the 90s cartoon era was gold for comics. . .

Yes, some interpretations of all reality translate to every reality.

However, in Marvel The End, all reality/omni reality meant the universe.

Plus, Spider-Man TAS is not comic canon.

The Sentry
08-08-2006, 05:27 PM
I think Cosmic Spidey is stronger than thanos

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