4 Tails >= Jiraiya, 5-9 ?

Hinata's Fan
01-21-2006, 02:00 PM
Hell no.

Jiraiya>4 Tails, also. Otherwise he wouldn't have almost died, he would have died period.

Not to mention Jiraiya wasn't expecting Naruto to lose control, so he probably got taken off guard, and he had to fight while holding back to avoid killing him.

Jiraiya is probably equal with this hypothetical 5 Tails you're talking about.

I doubt any Akatsuki except maybe the Leader are stronger then Jiraiya.

Chatulio
01-21-2006, 02:02 PM
4tails doesnt own jiraiya like hinatas fan said

TenshiOni
01-21-2006, 02:05 PM
Hinata's Fan covered this well.

Naruto w/5-tails is probably the only form that can truly defeat a Sannin, and well, Naruto hasn't even gone that far yet.

Anwyn
01-21-2006, 02:07 PM
Well you guys are right, 4 tail KN is not > jiraya, however it has the "power" to kill him. Just add another tail and we have probably a dead jiraiya.

However my point is still there... how akatsuki will deal with 5+ tailed naruto, if they are "equal" to people that have problems dealing with a 4 tailed naruto.

Gunners
01-21-2006, 02:09 PM
^^^ easy the probably wont, or will wait, theyre the sort of organisation that would take him quitely, ie search for a way that doesnt involve violance.

kool-ka-lang
01-21-2006, 02:15 PM
Well, the top akatsukis might be AT sannin level, but they're only 3 sannins, because san means 3 and nin means....ninja, so basically it's a description of oro, tsunade, and jiraiya as being THE 3 nins, not as a rank like jounin or chuunin.
so the top akatsukis are probably at that level, but are not sannin themselves.

Crowe
01-21-2006, 02:17 PM
Remember that Jiraiya wasnt trying to kill him. Trying to protect yourself without hurting the person who is attacking you is very hard.

FitzChivalry
01-21-2006, 02:18 PM
Jiraiya was trying to neutralize a 4 tailed Naruto without dealing serious damage him. I also take into consideration how Jiraiya really could've been caught off-guard, and what do you get? An enormous chest scar.

shintebukuro
01-21-2006, 02:29 PM
If we get to see Naruto fight with 3-tails in chapter 292, then we will have a better understanding of his strength vs. Jiraiya's, but until then there are many possibilities as to how it went. We cannot say for sure that Jiraiya was holding back and trying not to kill him, he might have never fought Naruto, but rather evaded damage to the best of his ability and poured chakra into his strongest sealing technique. Who knows.

You can try to justify it all day.

I personally feel it would be fine to assume 4-tails is comparable to Sannin-level, because Orochimaru is going to try and take Sasuke's body soon, and I think Sasuke will be able to resist it somehow.

shibigoku
01-21-2006, 03:02 PM
That's the reason they need to extract the bijuu while the jinchuruki is still young. Remember that there are no records of a full grown jinchuruki. Naruto is only 15 and look at his raw power, imagine a full grown Naruto. The power lvl is beyond imagination.

Uchiha Chris
01-21-2006, 03:08 PM
Hell no.

Jiraiya>4 Tails, also. Otherwise he wouldn't have almost died, he would have died period.

Not to mention Jiraiya wasn't expecting Naruto to lose control, so he probably got taken off guard, and he had to fight while holding back to avoid killing him.

Jiraiya is probably equal with this hypothetical 5 Tails you're talking about.

I doubt any Akatsuki except maybe the Leader are stronger then Jiraiya.

For once I agree.
There isn't anyone thats >>>>>>>>sannin, really there isnt :oh

Blood Dawn
01-21-2006, 03:09 PM
Like everyone else stated, Jiraiya was just training and got caught off-guard.

Woofie
01-21-2006, 03:20 PM
It's difficult to see how 5+ tails Naruto would be incorporated into the story anyway.

4 tails is the point at which he completely loses his mind, can't differentiate between friends and enemies. It's also the point at which there's talk of serious damage to Naruto's body, and it being "covered with blood" etc. To me, that sounds like the limit of what we could reasonably see, and also what Naruto could reasonably achieve without extremely bad consequences.

sekweeed
01-21-2006, 03:35 PM
Yes but don't forget that during the fight vs sasuke naruto was one tailed and was close to lose his mind.
Maybe after an other timeskip when he will be an adult, he could handle 5 or more tails without being hurt and loosing his mind.
I think naruto is going to last for at least 5 more years

Grrblt
01-21-2006, 05:40 PM
Jiraiya's could have gotten his injury in a number of ways, ranging from:
Naruto brings out the fourth tail and attacks the unsuspecting Jiraiya before he's able to react. From then it was a walk in the park for Jiraiya to calm him.
to
Jiraiya deliberately takes Naruto into the new 4 tail stage just to try it out, and Naruto totally trashes Jiraiya for a good while. Jiraiya struggles to use the pre-made condom seal that he's prepared for this occasion, since it is the only thing that can save him.

Right now we don't know how it happened.

Franckie
01-21-2006, 05:52 PM
That's the reason they need to extract the bijuu while the jinchuruki is still young. Remember that there are no records of a full grown jinchuruki. Naruto is only 15 and look at his raw power, imagine a full grown Naruto. The power lvl is beyond imagination.

I've been preaching this for awhile and I'm glad there's finally someone who has taken that thought into account.

ui_gui
01-21-2006, 09:15 PM
It is not about KLs, it is about Skills which Naruto is not on par with the Sannins.

Valdor
01-21-2006, 09:33 PM
Well I bet that later, at the very end of the Manga Naruto's enemies will be Jinchuurikis themselves (Akatsuki ones or not) and I doubt he will have 9 tails until then.
Also if I think Oro said something like he wanted the Sharingan to be abel to defeat Itachi, which means that he's actually weaker than him. (Or just can't deal with the MS)
On the other side Itachi said that only both, he and Kisame could take Jiraya and Jiraya is weaker than Orochimaru, so I'm not sure about that.

Gaara-Kazekage
01-22-2006, 06:19 AM
I think Naruto's next step is to control his consciousness at 4-tail so that the power serves his purpose.

At 5-9 tail he might be destroying public property/nature like the Kyuubi itself, and wears himself out for nothing. Unless he was placed inside a titanium/diamond cage with the akatsukis in a free-for-all.

Marsala
01-22-2006, 06:29 AM
It's difficult to see how 5+ tails Naruto would be incorporated into the story anyway.

4 tails is the point at which he completely loses his mind, can't differentiate between friends and enemies. It's also the point at which there's talk of serious damage to Naruto's body, and it being "covered with blood" etc. To me, that sounds like the limit of what we could reasonably see, and also what Naruto could reasonably achieve without extremely bad consequences.
This is true.

However, Kakashi mentioned that the tails would keep increasing until they reach nine in a particularly ominous way, so we will likely see Naruto reach up to eight tails sometime in the near future. This would not be used to defeat an enemy (though it might scare one away), but as an "Ohmigod! How do we stop the Kyuubi from breaking free?!" crisis.

Mizura
01-22-2006, 10:02 AM
Imo:

- 4 tails = threat to a sannin, especially one that isn't out to kill him and who gets caught off guard, though not quite there yet.

- 5 or 6 tails = sannin. One that's actually serious that is.

- 9 tails = the seal breaks and Kyuubi starts eating everyone for breakfast cereal. :oh

Yakushi~Kabuto
01-22-2006, 10:16 AM
Jiraiya almost died because he had to seal the kyubi while not killing Naruto, it is pretty obvious to me. Otherwise he could have retreated and killed Naruto from a distance with a single of his wide range ninjutsus or summonings.

Marsala
01-22-2006, 10:39 AM
You know, we still know very little of what happened the day Naruto reached 4 tails. Everyone seems to be assuming that Naruto only started winning at 4 tails, but other scenarios are possible. For instance, Naruto could have stopped fighting and tried to control the increase around 2 tails while Jiraiya desperately made out a seal. Then, when he hit 4 tails, Naruto would have ferally attacked and Jiraiya would have applied the seal at the cost of a severe wound. This application may have only been possible due to the mindless nature of Naruto's attack; he wouldn't try to defend himself from a sticker to the head. So Naruto at 3 tails could still be a huge threat to Jiraiya or Orochimaru.

I say this because if Naruto starts winning against Orochimaru, everyone will start shouted, "Wow, Jiraiya really IS stronger than Orochimaru!" and we don't need that.

Yakushi~Kabuto
01-22-2006, 10:42 AM
I say this because if Naruto starts winning against Orochimaru, everyone will start shouted, "Wow, Jiraiya really IS stronger than Orochimaru!" and we don't need that.But so far Jiraiya is stronger than him :huh
I mean c'mon Oro is afraid of Itachi while Jiraiya almost killed him along with Kisame in a single jutsu.

Anyway there is not even a chance out of 1000 Naruto could even be a threat to Orochimaru

kapsi
01-22-2006, 10:47 AM
Why, nobody's stronger than Jirayia. He's Jirayia, duh.

Marsala
01-22-2006, 10:59 AM
But so far Jiraiya is stronger than him :huh
I mean c'mon Oro is afraid of Itachi while Jiraiya almost killed him along with Kisame in a single jutsu.
Not this again. Jiraiya may have come close to killing Itachi and Kisame, but close only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades. Irregardless of how strong Itachi is (which is the most controversial subject on the forums), Orochimaru has always been a bit stronger than Jiraiya and treated him like a joke.

Anyway there is not even a chance out of 1000 Naruto could even be a threat to Orochimaru
Yeah, well, we'll see about that. Orochimaru and Kabuto have already acknowledged Naruto's strength, with Orochimaru comparing his current state to Sasuke. Now normally that would be a very fair and generous evaluation, different from their usual underestimation of Naruto. But, too bad for them; they still underestimated Naruto, and he is going to shock Orochimaru with his power. (But not Kabuto, since he's more powerful than everybody put together. :S )

Why, nobody's stronger than Jirayia. He's Jirayia, duh.
I stand corrected.

9TalesOfDestruction
01-22-2006, 11:01 AM
I think once he is able to stay conscious during a 4 tail transformation he could keep defeat the sannin, but now they probably just need to outsmart him

Yakushi~Kabuto
01-22-2006, 11:40 AM
Orochimaru has always been a bit stronger than Jiraiya and treated him like a joke.Like Sasuke always treated Naruto like a joke you mean? ^^ That's called a pwned rival.
At the hospital, Sasuke knew within himself Naruto was stronger than him but he couldn't ackowledge him. Kakashi stated right after that the Naru/Sasu relationship was much like Oro/Jira.

Nathan
01-22-2006, 12:53 PM
Like Sasuke always treated Naruto like a joke you mean? ^^ That's called a pwned rival.
At the hospital, Sasuke knew within himself Naruto was stronger than him but he couldn't ackowledge him. Kakashi stated right after that the Naru/Sasu relationship was much like Oro/Jira.

Agreed! :amuse

Pwned rival :nuts

Hinata's Fan
01-22-2006, 01:15 PM
Like Sasuke always treated Naruto like a joke you mean? ^^ That's called a pwned rival.
At the hospital, Sasuke knew within himself Naruto was stronger than him but he couldn't ackowledge him. Kakashi stated right after that the Naru/Sasu relationship was much like Oro/Jira.
True, particularly in their younger days, but I think Orochimaru has the advantage now because he keeps obtaining young bodies, and thus staying in his 'prime', while Jiraiya is getting a little older.

Not that its a huge difference, but I'd give Orochimaru the upper hand for that reason.

Yakushi~Kabuto
01-22-2006, 01:40 PM
True, particularly in their younger days, but I think Orochimaru has the advantage now because he keeps obtaining young bodies, and thus staying in his 'prime', while Jiraiya is getting a little older.

Not that its a huge difference, but I'd give Orochimaru the upper hand for that reason.
But Itachi thinks that even if all Akatsuki teamed on Jiraiya, they still wouldn't win. There must be a reason for that, stuffs Jiraiya never used so far. And it doesn't matter if he's aging since he still has a huge chakra capacity and doesn't use taijutsu in battle (unlike Orochimaru who is a strong taijutsu type). Sarutobi could have taken Oro on if 10 years younger according to the ANBU so Jiraiya still have many years before he starts to weaken (an Oro will probably be dead by then)

Akatsuki never bothered an attempt at capturing Naruto as long as Jiraiya was around. I mean they could just kill Jiraiya and take Naruto, and keep Naruto in a jail until the time comes. But they didn't even give it a try ever since Itachi failed to lure out Jiraiya with a girl, because they think the risks are too heavy and it's better to wait.

Orochimaru on the other hand is on Akatsuki agenda according to Deidara.

shintebukuro
01-22-2006, 03:21 PM
There couldn't be a better representation of Orochimaru's strength vs. Jiraiya's strength, than the Manda vs. Gamabunta fight.

Valdor
01-23-2006, 12:09 PM
But so far Jiraiya is stronger than him :huh
I mean c'mon Oro is afraid of Itachi while Jiraiya almost killed him along with Kisame in a single jutsu.

Anyway there is not even a chance out of 1000 Naruto could even be a threat to Orochimaru


Well Oro fought well against 2 Sannin without his hands. (Ok Jiraya was handicaped as well and Tsunade was frightende, but later both regained strangh)

And you have to consider that it always depends on the enemy too.
Best example: Naruto who had released Kyubi Chakra lost to the bone guy (What was his name again? The 5th Nin from "the five")
Gaara who lost the fight between Naruto and himself defeatet the guy and even Lee was doing better than Naruto.
Thats because they all have different ways of fighting and some styles are better than ones, but still lose to others.
As a Taijutsu user Oro might have more problems agains MS than Jiraya. But that doesn't mean Jiraya is better than Oro (even though it could be true, but I doubt that)

Audible Phonetics
01-23-2006, 02:16 PM
(But not Kabuto, since he's more powerful than everybody put together

Best thing I read so far in this thread smile-big .Cuz its true!! :wink

But all seriousness..naruto will learn to control the tails as he progresses thats inevitable

MasamuneX7
01-23-2006, 05:44 PM
That statement that Itachi made regarding Jiraiya's power was before the major Akatsuki-power boost. Before this boost, you see normal Kisame fighting evenly with Asuma. After this boost, you see 1/3 Kisame overpowering Gai, who is a better taijutsu fighter than Asuma. Before this boost, you see Itachi saying that both him and Kisame could at best fight evenly with Jiraiya with both sides dying in the end. After this boost, you see Kisame saying that Itachi himself could've beaten him.

I agree that 5-tail Naruto would probably be equal with one of the Sannin. I also think that the only Akatsuki member who is significantly above the Sannin is the leader. He may be on par with an 8-tail Naruto. In addition to Itachi and Sasori, there may be two more that are on a similar level as the Sannin (Zetsu and ??? or ??? and ????).

-GoW-
01-23-2006, 06:41 PM
Now with the statment jiraya made about how his life was in danger while figthing 4 tailed naruto, it seems that the sannins cant take down a 5 tailed naruto. However, naruto "still" have 4 tails to go.

A lot of people think that akatsuki are in the same level as the sannin. So if that is true, how in the hell akatsuki will deal with 5+tailed naruto???????... I think that this just show us, that the top 3-4akatsuki are in fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sannins.

Opinions?

Jiraya was in danger with 4 tails. So I assume with 5 or 6 he would get killed. Orochimaru is in his prime, contrary to Jiraya, so I believe he can deal with 6 tails. With 7 or 8 he has his life in real imminent danger.

On the Sannin fight we can clearly see Orochimaru is stronger then Jiraya and Tsunade. Orochimaru with no jutsus never took a hit from Jiraya (who was drugged but in far better condition than Orochimaru), and smashed him against the ground with rather ease. Cut Tsunade's lungs and almost cut her head off. He took quite an amount of Tsunade's super strenght punches directly and survived.

Now he is more powerfull and Jiraya is older. I honestly think he can beat both Sannins at the same time. According to Naruto/Konoha will of fire ideal, he would die because Jiraya would be like Rocky. But if we base ourselfs only in their current power, Orochimaru is superior than both, so he can handle more tails.

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