TOAA vs The Presence

Rice Ball
10-31-2007, 01:00 PM
This is like an Omnipotent v a Omnipotent.

The Presence was the 'good' side of DC's omnipotent being that has apparantly merged with the Great Evil Beast...
Personally i think thats pretty weak, specially as the evil half of it got talked down by swamp thing.

If you mean pre merge, the TOAA wins.
Post merge is a draw at best.

Sasori-puppet#296
10-31-2007, 01:07 PM
Hes just a guy that draws the people inside Marvel. Yes, the people inside Marvel would view him as omnipotent since he creates them. But i cant see him omnipotent outside the verse.

Fulong
11-09-2007, 03:12 AM
This is like an Omnipotent v a Omnipotent.

The Presence was the 'good' side of DC's omnipotent being that has apparantly merged with the Great Evil Beast...
Personally i think thats pretty weak, specially as the evil half of it got talked down by swamp thing.

If you mean pre merge, the TOAA wins.
Post merge is a draw at best.

Actually that would be Yahweh, which is Vertigo. I know that Vertigo is part of DC universe canon, but Presence never had a good or bad side unlike Yahweh.

So Yahweh would be the omnipotent in vertigoverse, and Presence would be the omnipotent in DCverse. It make sense that Elliane was able to replace Yahweh as god of Vertigoverse.

Basically Yahweh would be the guy who's control of Vertigoverse, and Presence (representation of the Abrahamic God created by Morrison) would be the guy in charge of everything that's DC. In other word, it's stalemate at least unless it's Celestial TOAA (LOL)

LivingHitokiri
11-09-2007, 03:18 AM
Hes just a guy that draws the people inside Marvel. Yes, the people inside Marvel would view him as omnipotent since he creates them. But i cant see him omnipotent outside the verse.

:facepalm .

Ax_
11-09-2007, 10:57 AM
Its a draw.
The Presence (not Yawheh, the Presence) is the greatest in every version of DC there is.

And TOAA is the greates in MArvel.
They have both made their respective existances.
Nothing happens unless they want it to.
There is quite literally nothing beyond them.
At all.

They have true omnipotence and everything.
Which means there is no limit to their power.

For example, remember MJJ?
TOAA could make him shit himself in absolute terror.

The Presence could even get Desire to act seriously and do as told.Desire never does that otherwise.

Desire decides to not follow orders?
The Presence wipes the current one away and makes a new one that is tailored specifically to what it wants.
Then, when the job is done, it takes that specific version away, and makes the past one come back, with its memory intact of what exactly happened when it decided to get uppity, as a warning for the future.

Really, there is no contest here.
Yawheh, who is inferior to the Presence, had a subordinate, Lucifre, who pushed Death of the Endless around and refused her even though he was already dead.

Do you understand, the inferior of the inferior of the Presence was not refusing Death when he was already dead, and she should technically have infinite power over him.

Do you realize what kind of power that puts the Presence on?

And TOAA is his equal.

Id
11-09-2007, 11:47 AM
TOAA, takes this.
I believe the Presence no longer holds the title of being Top of the Food Chain Omnipotent God. And a higher power exists (by the Presence own words so to speak).

While TOAA, remains the unquestionable Top Dog Omnipotent God in the Marvel Verse.

Ax_
11-09-2007, 11:54 AM
Wait, what?
When did the Presence admit to someone being stronger than him?

Power16
11-09-2007, 01:08 PM
I don't quite recall the seen but he said something along the line that he was shaped by forces external to himself. I thought that was his way of talking about the artist, like marvel TOAA.

Gunshin
11-09-2007, 01:42 PM
Didn't Lucifer just ignore The Presence?

Ax_
11-09-2007, 02:04 PM
He still wasn't in the same league as Yawheh, who isn't the Presence.
Yawheh is like the Presence as Superman is to Darkseid.

Id
11-09-2007, 02:15 PM
I don't quite recall the seen but he said something along the line that he was shaped by forces external to himself. I thought that was his way of talking about the artist, like marvel TOAA.

Something along those lines. Their is more, CBG "could" fill us in.:notrust

Darklyre
11-09-2007, 06:38 PM
Wait, what?
When did the Presence admit to someone being stronger than him?

It was in one of the final issues of Lucifer's book, I believe. God basically said that even he had his limits, and alluded to outside forces, but never explicitly said what.

Ax_
11-10-2007, 06:49 AM
Wasn't it Yahweh who said that though?
That guy isn't the Presence...

11-10-2007, 08:05 AM
Wasn't it Yahweh who said that though?
That guy isn't the Presence...
YHWH has been refered to as the Presence in Vertigo though.

11-10-2007, 08:18 AM
In the Marvel vs DC miniseries, which is not retconned though.
There were two etinities called the Brothers, one from DC and one from Marvel.
They were both refered to as supreme, and the creators of the parallel -verses.
And when they fought powers that ended and remade all creation was released. And not even the Living Tribunal and the Spectre couldn't get their attention.

And in the Marvel vs DC preview it was even stated that there would be two etinities that would represent each company.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2030/88252045dv7.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6301/49266597rb9.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4316/18yd3.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2655/23re3.jpg

Ax_
11-10-2007, 08:33 AM
YHWH isn't the fully powered Presence, though.

Where is the Source?
The Word?
Why haven't we been shown the Great Evil Beast there?
YHWH is just one small part of the Presence, just like those things above.

Fulong
11-15-2007, 04:08 AM
In the Marvel vs DC miniseries, which is not retconned though.
There were two etinities called the Brothers, one from DC and one from Marvel.
They were both refered to as supreme, and the creators of the parallel -verses.
And when they fought powers that ended and remade all creation was released. And not even the Living Tribunal and the Spectre couldn't get their attention.

And in the Marvel vs DC preview it was even stated that there would be two etinities that would represent each company.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2030/88252045dv7.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6301/49266597rb9.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4316/18yd3.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2655/23re3.jpg

Sadly the the Brothers were retconned, so they're Lt little bitch now. Pre-retconned however, are quite the megaverse beasts.

shrike2003
12-18-2007, 04:48 AM
Sadly the the Brothers were retconned, so they're Lt little bitch now. Pre-retconned however, are quite the megaverse beasts.

So..........the Brothers were beyond God? :oh

Comic Book Guy
12-18-2007, 02:41 PM
YHWH isn't the fully powered Presence, though.

Where is the Source?

It is there in Lucifer -- he passed it, but was not being interested in it.

The Word?

You mean the elder of the Spectre? Destroyed in Swamp Thing, last I saw it.

Then retconned to be the/a power of Hal-Spectre.

Why haven't we been shown the Great Evil Beast there?

Merged with the Presence, and last seen with Hal-Spectre, tempting him.

YHWH is just one small part of the Presence, just like those things above.

I blame it on DC's attitude toward VERTIGO.

Azure Flame Fright
12-18-2007, 04:09 PM
How is there not a rule against fights with ppl that are completely omnipotent

Fulong
12-18-2007, 06:37 PM
So..........the Brothers were beyond God? :oh

Well not exactly. You see, the brother were meant to represent Marvel and DC company as a whole during Pre-Retcon.

shrike2003
12-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Well not exactly. You see, the brother were meant to represent Marvel and DC company as a whole during Pre-Retcon.

'K. Got ya :) :P

crisisxxx
12-22-2010, 09:25 AM
TOAA win.... Because if I'm not mistaken, the so called God in DC(vertigo) ,I'm not really sure if it was yahweh or the prescence, were killed by the saint of all killers... so how come that an omnipotent being, were killed and before that begging for his life. I think yahweh and the presence is just the same.


while in the other hand TOAA is said to be the most powerful being in the marvel megaverse, or probably even the omniverse w/c include the other company such as DC.

Comic Book Guy
12-22-2010, 09:43 AM
Saint of Killers is not at all connected with DC/VERTIGO, save that it's under the VERTIGO imprint.

Marvel's use of the term 'omniverse' shouldn't be meant to be taken literally. It's just something they use to refer to the whole of their continuity.

crisisxxx
12-23-2010, 10:50 AM
ok. i see.



but still, TOAA is said to be omniversal, and omniverse means The collection of every single universe, dimension, reality, etc. This includes the real world, as well as the Marvel Universe, the Star Trek Universe, the Image Universe, etc. Omniverse is also the conceptual ensemble of all possible universes, with all possible laws of physics.

i dont know about the prescence, but i think he's just from the DC universe....

8-Peacock-8
12-23-2010, 10:54 AM
ok. i see.



but still, TOAA is said to be omniversal, and omniverse means The collection of every single universe, dimension, reality, etc. This includes the real world, as well as the Marvel Universe, the Star Trek Universe, the Image Universe, etc. Omniverse is also the conceptual ensemble of all possible universes, with all possible laws of physics.

i dont know about the prescence, but i think he's just from the DC universe....

why the hell did you necro a three year old thread i know your new and but seriously check the date it was posted

crisisxxx
12-23-2010, 11:13 AM
This being is outside of the Presence's creation. This is no fallen Angel or Leviathan, this is the soul of darkness itself. A complete absence of divine light. This being is in every way equal to the power of the Presence, but his opposite, who existed before Creation.


im talking about the great evil beast, meaning that the presence has an equal to the DC. although they are merged now. but still the presence to have full power, needs to merge to an equally powerful such as the great evil beast, thats lame.

while TOAA has no equal in marvel...he created all within the marvel unlike the prescence...

noobthemusical
12-23-2010, 11:20 AM
You do of course realize that the omniverse referred to by Marvel is not omniverse in the sense OBD means it to be.

No fiction has ever actually meant it to be Omniversal in the actual sense of the word, because then you could Argue that Gan from the Dark Tower series is has control over Marvel, or Azathoth has control over it.

Although if TOAA would win because it is in fact the self insert of the Marvel company.

Vault
12-27-2010, 10:25 PM
Hes just a guy that draws the people inside Marvel. Yes, the people inside Marvel would view him as omnipotent since he creates them. But i cant see him omnipotent outside the verse.

Loooooooooool

Hahahahahahaha

Onomatopoeia
12-27-2010, 10:50 PM
TOAA is Jack Kirby. Therefore he wins, even if his opponent is omnipotent. :datass

The Immortal WatchDog
12-27-2010, 11:07 PM
the TOAA may have better creation feats seeing as I don't really think anything in dc shy of the presence itself has replicated the LT's more impressive feats

being the creator of some one like that

Emperor Raizen
01-06-2011, 12:21 AM
TOAA is a Tier-0 Omnipotent; an avatar of the writer i.e. Jack Kirby.
The Presence is a Tier-1 Omnipotent on par with the Great Evil Beast which is commonly known as "nigh\virtually omnipotent".
Yahweh's only LT level so he loses this shit.

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