Cyclops' Optic Blast vs. Superman's Heat Vision

jplaya2023
03-09-2007, 07:44 PM
Cyclops can actually control the strength, shape, direction and impact of his beams. Meaning he can make them as wide or as narrow as he wants to. Superman has never exibited such control.

Cyclops would rape superman with his optic blast

Gunners
03-09-2007, 08:01 PM
Cyclops can actually control the strength, shape, direction and impact of his beams. Meaning he can make them as wide or as narrow as he wants to. Superman has never exibited such control.

Cyclops would rape superman with his optic blast
I swear I saw an image where Superman controlled the temperature of his heat vision too melt down his enemies armour something like that. I think he has a level of control over his heat rays. If they can reach temperatures exceeding the suns I kinda place that over cyclops optic vision though I could be underrating Cyclops blasts.

CM Pope
03-09-2007, 08:04 PM
Cyclops just has better control even if they wouldn't actually hurt Supes.

Havoc
03-09-2007, 08:38 PM
[QUOTE=Kirin;7335495]I swear I saw an image where Superman controlled the temperature of his heat vision too melt down his enemies armour something like that. I think he has a level of control over his heat rays. If they can reach temperatures exceeding the suns I kinda place that over cyclops optic vision though I could be underrating Cyclops blasts.

Supermans heat vision is basically a laser, Cyclops is a concussive blast. Two different properties, so it's kind of hard to say which one is stronger.

Wesley
03-09-2007, 08:40 PM
Has Cyclops ever bore a hole through a Universe with his? I didn't think so. :amuse

Havoc
03-09-2007, 08:43 PM
Cyclops can actually control the strength, shape, direction and impact of his beams. Meaning he can make them as wide or as narrow as he wants to. Superman has never exibited such control.

Cyclops would rape superman with his optic blast

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l54/Markymark_016/015-Superman20Batman2001020Rembrand.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9708/supermansheatvision24vv.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8360/08222005124926pm7ji.jpg
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3679/08222005125029pm5zg.jpg

Devilguy
03-09-2007, 08:48 PM
What a badass Superman!!!

Gunners
03-09-2007, 08:53 PM
Ahhh thanks Havoc that was the image I spoke off.

Vynjira
03-09-2007, 09:03 PM
Cyclops can actually control the strength, shape, direction and impact of his beams...and Superman can't?? Are you insane? Meaning he can make them as wide or as narrow as he wants to. Superman has never exibited such control.Ok lets compare.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9708/supermansheatvision24vv.jpg
Lets take this lil test of the sophistication of Krypto's control over his heat vision. They control the intensity and luminosity as well as from planet to moon. What Cyclops' range again?
Next,
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg
Intensity is off the Chart by scientific measurements which are derived from the Sun. Meaning the intensity is off the charts in comparison to our Sun. Cyclops tearing apart a small planet? Superman's ignited Supernovas with his heat vision.

He's also shot down bullets with his heat vision, as well as at one point he even used X-Ray Vision and Heat Vision to melt and object behind a wall. Which made no sense. However the fact remains he can use other powers in conjunction with his Heat Vision. That includes Microscopic Vision. Its also heat vision meaning it creates heat. Which unlike Cyclops means his vision can melt things its not touching at high enough intensities.
Cyclops would rape superman with his optic blastWhich proves your bias and shows how little you know.

jplaya2023
03-09-2007, 09:33 PM
I could be underrating Cyclops blasts.

you are

Cyclops wins without breaking a sweat

Hamaru
03-09-2007, 09:35 PM
Unless someone has some Optic blast pics this is unfair:cry

jplaya2023
03-09-2007, 09:37 PM
..and Superman can't?? Are you insane? Ok lets compare.
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9708/supermansheatvision24vv.jpg
Lets take this lil test of the sophistication of Krypto's control over his heat vision. They control the intensity and luminosity as well as from planet to moon. What Cyclops' range again?
Next,
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg
Intensity is off the Chart by scientific measurements which are derived from the Sun. Meaning the intensity is off the charts in comparison to our Sun. Cyclops tearing apart a small planet? Superman's ignited Supernovas with his heat vision.

He's also shot down bullets with his heat vision, as well as at one point he even used X-Ray Vision and Heat Vision to melt and object behind a wall. Which made no sense. However the fact remains he can use other powers in conjunction with his Heat Vision. That includes Microscopic Vision. Its also heat vision meaning it creates heat. Which unlike Cyclops means his vision can melt things its not touching at high enough intensities.
Which proves your bias and shows how little you know.



Interesting. It appears i missed these special edition superman comics. Cool

Must of been a regional release

Hamaru
03-09-2007, 09:48 PM
The maximum force of Cyclops' optic blasts are unknown, but a commonly given description is that he can "punch holes through mountains", and he has been shown to rupture a half-inch thick carbon steel plate. During a particular battle, Scott says that he hit Cain Marko (a.k.a. the Juggernaut) with enough power to split a small planet, though he may have been indulging in hyperbole. In the mainstream continuity of the Marvel Universe, it has also been implied that Cyclops only utilizes a fraction of the energies at his disposal. During the Civil War: X-Men story arc, Cyclops is controlled by another mutant to use his powers at their full magnitude. When directed at the energy-absorbing mutant Bishop, Cyclops was able to overload Bishop's powers in a matter of seconds. It is also stated that Cyclops does not use his powers at such a level due to the preoccupation he has regarding his control (or lack thereof) of his abilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclops_(comics)

jplaya2023
03-09-2007, 09:55 PM
The maximum force of Cyclops' optic blasts are unknown, but a commonly given description is that he can "punch holes through mountains", and he has been shown to rupture a half-inch thick carbon steel plate. During a particular battle, Scott says that he hit Cain Marko (a.k.a. the Juggernaut) with enough power to split a small planet, though he may have been indulging in hyperbole. In the mainstream continuity of the Marvel Universe, it has also been implied that Cyclops only utilizes a fraction of the energies at his disposal. During the Civil War: X-Men story arc, Cyclops is controlled by another mutant to use his powers at their full magnitude. When directed at the energy-absorbing mutant Bishop, Cyclops was able to overload Bishop's powers in a matter of seconds. It is also stated that Cyclops does not use his powers at such a level due to the preoccupation he has regarding his control (or lack thereof) of his abilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclops_(comics)


small planet destruction >>>>> no planet destruction

cyclops wins easily

Hamaru
03-09-2007, 09:59 PM
small planet destruction >>>>> no planet destruction

cyclops wins easily

Same thing I was thinking. It seems like people just under rate Cyclops. Not to mention that his blast could get a crap load stronger then that if he felt he could controll it. If he was to just let it all go then Superman would be screwed.

Taleran
03-09-2007, 10:02 PM
wasn't there something in one of the Recent Civil War Issues (X-Men one with them opening a door) and someone mentioned something about Scott's optic blasts I just can't remember it

Vynjira
03-09-2007, 10:18 PM
Same thing I was thinking. It seems like people just under rate Cyclops.Wow, so a Small Planet > a Star? Read what I wrote about Cyclops' small Planet and Superman's easily off the Chart in comparisons to Stars.Not to mention that his blast could get a crap load stronger then that if he felt he could control it.Benifit of the doubt here. Lets say Cyclops can generate 1,000 time more force than he's ever displayed. He's still shy over 1,300 times a our tiny Sun. Infact his Vision has caused stars to go Supernova which over short periods of time produce as much energy as the Sun would emit over about 10 billion years.If he was to just let it all go then Superman would be screwed.If your serious, go to a Scientist and ask "Is the force of ripping a planet apart greater than a force than can cause Stars to go Supernova?" I'll give you $50 if he doesn't give you a lecture on the difference between stars and planets.

Id
03-09-2007, 10:25 PM
Which is more powerful???
What if they both did their eye attacks at the same time and the attacks connected?

Superman hands down.

What’s the best feat Cyclops has done on panel, because Superman heat vision is well above the temperature of the sun.

Hamaru
03-09-2007, 10:54 PM
Wow, so a Small Planet > a Star? Read what I wrote about Cyclops' small Planet and Superman's easily off the Chart in comparisons to Stars.Benifit of the doubt here. Lets say Cyclops can generate 1,000 time more force than he's ever displayed. He's still shy over 1,300 times a our tiny Sun. Infact his Vision has caused stars to go Supernova which over short periods of time produce as much energy as the Sun would emit over about 10 billion years.If your serious, go to a Scientist and ask "Is the force of ripping a planet apart greater than a force than can cause Stars to go Supernova?" I'll give you $50 if he doesn't give you a lecture on the difference between stars and planets.

Do you know how cyclops's power works? It does NOT produce heat it produces force. So no he could not charge up a star but he could destroy it. He was also able to Over charge bishop is seconds.

Tsuuga
03-09-2007, 11:00 PM
So basically, Cyclops would melt and Superman would be pushed back.

Darklyre
03-09-2007, 11:04 PM
Superman's got the ability to flash-fry an entire planet's atmosphere.

Hamaru
03-09-2007, 11:05 PM
So basically, Cyclops would melt and Superman would be pushed back.

Assunming Supes gets passed his Optic blast. It is said that his blast at a distance of 50 feet, has a force of 500 pounds per square inch. This is not even Ultimate Cyclops, and his limets are still unknown.

Kamen Rider Godzilla
03-09-2007, 11:31 PM
Lol at people thinking Cyclops could beat Superman with optic blasts. Superman can survive within a black hole. Cyclops power isn't going to hurt him.

Hamaru
03-09-2007, 11:46 PM
Lol at people thinking Cyclops could beat Superman with optic blasts. Superman can survive within a black hole. Cyclops power isn't going to hurt him.

The force of a black hole pulls you. It is not the same.

Vynjira
03-09-2007, 11:49 PM
Do you know how cyclops's power works? It does NOT produce heat it produces force....DUH!So no he could not charge up a star but he could destroy it....No! and double No! Cyclops cannot destroy a star nor can he generate that much force. No! Your missing the scale differnce.He was also able to Over charge bishop is seconds.Yea? and? Other people have as well.has a force of 500 pounds per square inch.and?

Here's some math for ya.
Solar Flare produces over 4,186,800,000,000,000 joules

Cyclops' blast per square foot produces 4,425.6 joules(6000lbs per square foot)

Superman's heat vision can produce well over 54,428,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules

Planets ARE NOTHING in comparison to stars not to mention Supernovae.

Vynjira
03-09-2007, 11:51 PM
Assunming Supes gets passed his Optic blast. It is said that his blast at a distance of 50 feet, has a force of 500 pounds per square inch. This is not even Ultimate Cyclops, and his limets are still unknown.

Cyclops' blast per square foot produces
4,425.6 joules(6000lbs per square foot)
Superman's heat vision can produce well over
54,428,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules

jplaya2023
03-10-2007, 12:01 AM
Superman's heat vision can produce well over 54,428,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules

Planets ARE NOTHING in comparison to stars not to mention Supernovae.

you mind showing the scans that explicitely state that?

Hamaru
03-10-2007, 12:05 AM
Cyclops' blast per square foot produces
4,425.6 joules(6000lbs per square foot)
Superman's heat vision can produce well over
54,428,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules

Were was this said:huh
Also like I said before that is NOT his full force. 500 lbs per sq inch is when the blast is 4 feet wide and while he is still holding back (allot). He could still Narrow the blast to make it stronger. Also you cant say charging a star>destroying a planet (without full force) since they are 2 differnt things.

friendlypirate
03-10-2007, 12:14 AM
Both destroying a planet and charging a star require the transfer of energy, so they are similar when discussing power levels.

The difference in energy needed for both feats is substantial.

I don't know how to quote, but someone said that surviving a black hole doesn't prove durability. This isn't true, the gravity of a black hole will rip your body apart because the gravitational pull is different in every part of your body.
Blackhole > Optic blast for sure.

Red
03-10-2007, 12:22 AM
Charging a star is a really easy thing to do, excite a couple of atoms to start a chain reaction that would eventual start a nuclear fission or fusion depending on some factors and eventually the star will charge. a nuke can do this.

setting fire to an atmosphere its also very easy to do. even the human torch can pull it off.

the reason cyclops optic blasts own is because they have substantial force, It has been hinted that cyclops blasts can destroy planets,
and in one occasion he recreated the big bang and either punched a whole in the universe or made one himself and he wasn't even out of control at that moment.

for all we know cyclops eye beam can own super man.

Hamaru
03-10-2007, 12:33 AM
The exact limitation of Superman's heat vision is undetermined. Heat vision, while one of Superman's most powerful abilities, is usually considered the one which drains him of solar energy fastest. Shortly after his resurrection, he lost control of his newly-regained super-powers and was forced to submerge in the ocean for a time to let his heat-vision drain his stamina and allow him to regain command of his faculties.

His current upper limit has been demonstrated to destroy an army of poorly made Doomsday clones in a single application. (The original Doomsday could resist Superman's heat vision). However, Superman stated (while rubbing his eyes) that he "couldn't do that twice" after unleashing the blast, suggesting that it taxed him heavily

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_vision

Superman and Cyclops both get their power from the same sorce. However Cyclops can use is more.

Vynjira
03-10-2007, 12:40 AM
Were was this said:huh
Also like I said before that is NOT his full force. 500 lbs per sq inch is when the blast is 4 feet wide and while he is still holding back (allot). He could still Narrow the blast to make it stronger. Also you cant say charging a star>destroying a planet (without full force) since they are 2 differnt things.Actually I can, Joules is a measure of energy. Thus when you convert both things into their respective Joules you can compare them that way.

You want a more accurate estimate using the Planet Busting Cyclops?

To destroy Alderaan 3.7 E32 JoulesSOURCE (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar.html)
The Sun produces 4.1868 E27 joules a secondSOURCE (http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2005/09/05/how_much_energy_does_the_sun_produce/)

A Supernova radiates as much energy as the Sun would emit over about 10 billion years. Wiki

31,622,400 seconds in one year. Calculator
1323.9666432 E42 joules in a Supernova.

Superman's Heat Vision is over 1,324 E42 Joules and Cyclops destroying Aleraan is 3.7 E32 Joules.

Superman's Heat Vision produces more than 3,580,000,000,000 times more energy/force than Cyclops' blasts.for all we know cyclops eye beam can own super man.Speculation is the number one failing in a debate. While I admit those numbers are based on speculation, the point was to show the difference in terms of power not to say that either were those numbers exactly but to prove the point they aren't close.

Cyclops had been hinted to rip apart planets, Superman's turned Stars into Supernova. Stars that have long lost their fusion reactions and have become dead or have faded.

Comic Book Guy
03-10-2007, 12:45 AM
Cyclops can actually control the strength, shape, direction and impact of his beams. Meaning he can make them as wide or as narrow as he wants to. Superman has never exibited such control.

Actually, Superman demonstrates far better control than Cyclops have ever managed.

You just don't read Superman comics. The majority of what you read is non-canon too, to boot.

Cyclops would rape superman with his optic blast

Highly debatable.

you are

Cyclops wins without breaking a sweat

Again, highly debatable.

Interesting. It appears i missed these special edition superman comics. Cool

Must of been a regional release

Now that's just an insult to comics.

Superman/Batman a specific region release?

I live in Toronto, and I've got my copy of Superman/Batman Volume 2. It's an on-going comic.

Get with the times, jplaya2023.

small planet destruction >>>>> no planet destruction

cyclops wins easily

Superman's heat vision can't even be measured by scientific standards -- scientists can make an estimate on the temperature of stars and its core, but they can't estimate the heat of Superman's heat vision.

That, combined with a range that can engulf Earth. . .

you mind showing the scans that explicitely state that?

Didn't you see it? It was already posted by Vynjira.

Hamaru
03-10-2007, 01:10 AM
Actually I can, Joules is a measure of energy. Thus when you convert both things into their respective Joules you can compare them that way.

You want a more accurate estimate using the Planet Busting Cyclops?

To destroy Alderaan 3.7 E32 JoulesSOURCE (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar.html)
The Sun produces 4.1868 E27 joules a secondSOURCE (http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2005/09/05/how_much_energy_does_the_sun_produce/)

A Supernova radiates as much energy as the Sun would emit over about 10 billion years. Wiki

31,622,400 seconds in one year. Calculator
1323.9666432 E42 joules in a Supernova.

Superman's Heat Vision is over 1,324 E42 Joules and Cyclops destroying Aleraan is 3.7 E32 Joules.

Superman's Heat Vision produces more than 3,580,000,000,000 times more energy/force than Cyclops' blasts.Speculation is the number one failing in a debate. While I admit those numbers are based on speculation, the point was to show the difference in terms of power not to say that either were those numbers exactly but to prove the point they aren't close.

Cyclops had been hinted to rip apart planets, Superman's turned Stars into Supernova. Stars that have long lost their fusion reactions and have become dead or have faded.

Even with that said it still is not clear. Supes claimed his limet after the doomsday clone blast. Cyclops's limet is still unknown. In the end they both come from the same power source and it would come down to the way heat reacts to force.

Red
03-10-2007, 01:27 AM
Actually I can, Joules is a measure of energy. Thus when you convert both things into their respective Joules you can compare them that way.

You want a more accurate estimate using the Planet Busting Cyclops?

To destroy Alderaan 3.7 E32 JoulesSOURCE (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar.html)
The Sun produces 4.1868 E27 joules a secondSOURCE (http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2005/09/05/how_much_energy_does_the_sun_produce/)

A Supernova radiates as much energy as the Sun would emit over about 10 billion years. Wiki

31,622,400 seconds in one year. Calculator
1323.9666432 E42 joules in a Supernova.

Superman's Heat Vision is over 1,324 E42 Joules and Cyclops destroying Aleraan is 3.7 E32 Joules.

Superman's Heat Vision produces more than 3,580,000,000,000 times more energy/force than Cyclops' blasts.Speculation is the number one failing in a debate. While I admit those numbers are based on speculation, the point was to show the difference in terms of power not to say that either were those numbers exactly but to prove the point they aren't close.

Cyclops had been hinted to rip apart planets, Superman's turned Stars into Supernova. Stars that have long lost their fusion reactions and have become dead or have faded.

cyclops created a big bang, calculate that.making stars go nova doesnt necsscarily mean anything in terms of heat levels.The cycle of producing and using heavier and heavier elements continues until all possible fuel sources are exhausted. When this happens, the core instantaneously collapses, and an enormous shock wave ripples outward through the star. This massive explosion, or supernova, jettisons solar gases and heavy elements into space so superman making a star go nova is moot point. even if it was a factor then it wont be as high as you claim. A Supernova radiates as much energy as the Sun would emit over about 10 billion years. WikiDont mistake sups heat beam for a supernova. The Sun produces 4.1868 E27 joules a secondSOURCE (http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2005/09/05/how_much_energy_does_the_sun_produce/)

A Supernova radiates as much energy as the Sun would emit over about 10 billion years. Wiki

31,622,400 seconds in one year. Calculator
1323.9666432 E42 joules in a Supernova.

Superman's Heat Vision is over 1,324 E42 Joules and Cyclops destroying Aleraan is 3.7 E32 Joules.Once again the caculation is flawed just because supes beam caused a super nova doesnt mean supes beam is the same as said nova.

EvilMoogle
03-10-2007, 01:48 AM
Even with that said it still is not clear. Supes claimed his limet after the doomsday clone blast. Cyclops's limet is still unknown. In the end they both come from the same power source and it would come down to the way heat reacts to force.

Cyclops using his "max force" blast amplified through Bishop wasn't able to break open the door to the SHIELD bunker in Civil War: X-Men without help from the Sentinels and Iron Man (which do not add cosmic levels of power to the equation so the door obviously wasn't primary adamantium).

Cyc is fairly powerful by Earth-mutant standards (well... was before Emma got to him), but in the grand scheme of things he's nobody.

jplaya2023
03-10-2007, 01:55 AM
Didn't you see it? It was already posted by Vynjira.

I seen no scan that had those numbers that poster posted. Please refresh my memory with the links to those pics. Also show me those calculations in canon that gauged superman's heat vision strength

Comic Book Guy
03-10-2007, 02:04 AM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg

Scientific measures have been able to estimate the temperature of stars and even the core of stars.

Yet, with regards to Superman's heat vision, they can't estimate it.

Hamaru
03-10-2007, 02:06 AM
Cyclops using his "max force" blast amplified through Bishop wasn't able to break open the door to the SHIELD bunker in Civil War: X-Men without help from the Sentinels and Iron Man (which do not add cosmic levels of power to the equation so the door obviously wasn't primary adamantium).

Cyc is fairly powerful by Earth-mutant standards (well... was before Emma got to him), but in the grand scheme of things he's nobody.

Let's do some math:

500lbs per sq inch= 6000lbs per sq foot he spreads his blast 4ft wide. That = 24,000lbs per foot from his blast. Multiply that by 50 which equals
1,200,000lbs hitting you head on. If he was to narrow his blast to 1ft wide then it would be 4,800,000lbs!

Keep in mind that Marvel says that his full power is still not known and that isn't even Ultimate Cyclops who gets suped up.

Hamaru
03-10-2007, 02:09 AM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/863/supermansheatvision30nk.jpg

Scientific measures have been able to estimate the temperature of stars and even the core of stars.

Yet, with regards to Superman's heat vision, they can't estimate it.

Cyclops's blast can't be estimated eather.

Comic Book Guy
03-10-2007, 02:27 AM
Bishop and Cyclops suggested that they channeled Cyclops full power through Bishop in order to breach the Stark bunker that held the 198. They weren't able to do it alone, even when Cyclops steadily became critical.

Plus, Iron Man calculated power levels of almost 2 gigawatts from Bishop channeling Cyclops optic blasts toward the Stark bunker.

Hamaru
03-10-2007, 02:43 AM
Bishop and Cyclops suggested that they channeled Cyclops full power through Bishop in order to breach the Stark bunker that held the 198. They weren't able to do it alone, even when Cyclops steadily became critical.

Plus, Iron Man calculated power levels of almost 2 gigawatts from Bishop channeling Cyclops optic blasts toward the Stark bunker.

It still isn't the same Bishop channeling Cyclops's blast changed the matter and effect of it. Bishop also ended up getting over charged in a short amount of time.

A blast from Cyclops at 1 foot wide hits with the force of 400 tons from 50 feet. That is allot of Force to get passed.

Vynjira
03-10-2007, 10:50 AM
It still isn't the same Bishop channeling Cyclops's blast changed the matter and effect of it. Bishop also ended up getting over charged in a short amount of time.Your pretending like Superman's wouldn't overload Bishop either. Before you mention a feat with no numbers think if anyone else could do it. A weakened Juggernaut maxed out Bishop's powers and right before he maxed out he generated enough energy to light up a City for a few years. That alone suggests Cyclops has better feats, as he's implied he has enough force to rip thru a small planet.A blast from Cyclops at 1 foot wide hits with the force of 400 tons from 50 feet. That is allot of Force to get passed.Yea and in Superman's one hand he can exert millions of tons of pressure...Cyclops's blast can't be estimated eather.For different reasons. Cyclops can't be estimated because he uses fractions of his power. Superman can't be estimated because its beyond their ability to measure in terms of Stars.Once again the caculation is flawed just because supes beam caused a super nova doesnt mean supes beam is the same as said nova.Actually since Superman wasn't using a fraction of his power, wasn't causing chain reactions, he flat out created enough heat and force with his heat vision to do so. Regardless he used it in to hurt people that can take multiple planet busting forces without damage. Furthermore people that calculate Stars cannot calculate his Heat Vision. Its off the Charts.

Real quick comparison Solar Flare with an energy equivalent to a billion megatons, a Solar Flare is a drop in the bucket in comparison to Superman's heat vision.

Red
03-10-2007, 03:15 PM
What I'm going to say I have said a couple of times before but noone has taken it seriously. and I dont want bullshit cannon arguments, IN xmen movie 2 official novel Mind controlled cyclops fought jean grey, and in one scene cyclops blast created a tear in the fabric of space time continuum and made a big bang, the blast was greatly reduced because most of the energy from the blast was emptied out into another universe.

calculate that.

Yea and in Superman's one hand he can exert millions of tons of pressure...we are not talking about his hand we are talking about which ray is stronger, thats kinda of a moot point.
Actually since Superman wasn't using a fraction of his power, wasn't causing chain reactions, he flat out created enough heat and force with his heat vision to do so. Regardless he used it in to hurt people that can take multiple planet busting forces without damage. Furthermore people that calculate Stars cannot calculate his Heat Vision. Its off the Charts.Unless specifically stated you cant make the assumption that he didnt cause a chain reaction, thus using his charging star feat is somewhat unreliable. And dont forget both cyclops and supes dont use their full poteintial in terms of beams and they both can do massive damage. so stop using the 'supes isnt using his potential argument',

Vynjira
03-10-2007, 08:00 PM
What I'm going to say I have said a couple of times before but noone has taken it seriously.*Snip*Because regardless of your argument, your comparing Planets to Stars. Your also debating points out of context and citing Non-canon material as things that happened.

Hamaru
03-11-2007, 01:54 AM
Vynjira everyone knows that supes is strong and all but You like to make him seem like NOTHING can hurt him and that is not the case. If someone hit him with a building he feels it. Im not saying he would be knocked out, but he CAN get hurt.

back on topic; due to how their beems work differnt who is to say that Cyclops's beems force wont go through supes beem and the heat ray may spread? One is force and the other is heat so when they hit each other anything could happen.

Vynjira
03-11-2007, 11:14 AM
Vynjira everyone knows that supes is strong and all but You like to make him seem like NOTHING can hurt him and that is not the case.A blast from Cyclops at 1 foot wide hits with the force of 400 tons from 50 feet. That is allot of Force to get passed.Your the one claiming 400tons is allot of force to get pass. Which I showed wasn't even close to the levels Superman's hand could produce. Why would I bring that up? Because his heat vision can produce more devastating forces than his hand.If someone hit him with a building he feels it. Im not saying he would be knocked out, but he CAN get hurt.Actually, on most cases he wouldn't feel a building dropping on him. He's been hit by nukes and had a ringing in his ear. Normally he's taken quite a bit of damage or is weakened in some way before such things happened. You need to stop pretending that the Cartoons portray him how he really is.Please, if you want to post here at least try to hide the fact that you don't read comics Because if you knew what you were suggesting you'd realize how that claim fails at every level.Please, if you want to post here at least try to hide the fact that you don't read comicsOnly Superman's heat vision carries force as well, so your completely wrong.

lucky
03-11-2007, 04:58 PM
Interesting. It appears i missed these special edition superman comics. Cool

Must of been a regional release

lol either that or you actually don't read much comics of superman to actually make comments.

So no he could not charge up a star but he could destroy it.

hah! where does it say this?

Dude cyclops eye powers never had any showings that exceeded superman's.

omg laser pew pew!
03-12-2007, 04:22 AM
It still isn't the same Bishop channeling Cyclops's blast changed the matter and effect of it. Bishop also ended up getting over charged in a short amount of time.

Ummm no. If Bishop channelling Scott's blast is weaker than just Scott's blast then why did they use it? They wanted as much power as possible so it's just logically incorrect for them to pick the weaker option

Hamaru
03-12-2007, 03:27 PM
A few thing.....

1) I know that supes is stronger then the cartoon.
2) I already said that the 400 tons cyclops bast makes is NOT his strongest
3) Having the power to destroy a small planet is NOT Cyclops's limet.
4) You guys give crap about the whole bishop thing but I can say that supes limet was when he destroyed the dooms day clones. So scott dishing out power that could destroy a small planet would be a bigger feat.

The exact limitation of Superman's heat vision is undetermined. Heat vision, while one of Superman's most powerful abilities, is usually considered the one which drains him of solar energy fastest. Shortly after his resurrection, he lost control of his newly-regained super-powers and was forced to submerge in the ocean for a time to let his heat-vision drain his stamina and allow him to regain command of his faculties.

His current upper limit would be to destroy an army of poorly made Doomsday clones in a single application. (The original Doomsday could resist Superman's heat vision). However, Superman stated (while rubbing his eyes) that he "couldn't do that twice" after unleashing the blast, suggesting that it taxed him heavily.

Vynjira
03-12-2007, 07:22 PM
4) You guys give crap about the whole bishop thing but I can say that supes limet was when he destroyed the dooms day clones. So scott dishing out power that could destroy a small planet would be a bigger feat.You do realize Doomsday could take planet busters without being scratched right? His clones while being physically less durable were still above said benchmark..The exact limitation of Superman's heat vision is undetermined.Actually his exact limititation CANNOT be determined or calculated by any means that they have including that of stars. Now comprehend the difference between a star and a planet. Your taking Cyclops some millions of time higher because his limit is unknown. Superman's is unknown PAST that millions of times. So here's an idea if you play speculation quest play it with both characters equally. Meaning you multiple the small planet Scenario by a million then for Superman you multiple his Star Scenario.Heat vision, while one of Superman's most powerful abilities, is usually considered the one which drains him of solar energy fastest.Know what your talking about as well. Yes he can exaust solar energy faster that way it depends on how much force and intensity he puts into it. His current upper limit would be to destroy an army of poorly made Doomsday clones in a single application. (The original Doomsday could resist Superman's heat vision).Yea and you do realize Doomsday could survive being thrown into stars.. However, Superman stated (while rubbing his eyes) that he "couldn't do that twice" after unleashing the blast, suggesting that it taxed him heavily.Again bad comparison. Learn who your talking about. Your not debating your stating facts you expect to prove your point. With no understanding of how your debate is being destroyed by your facts.

Real simple Cyclops' best feat not being Cyclops' max but his best feat is a million times lower than Superman's feat which is not Superman's best.

Cyclops' max hasn't been seen, Superman's can't be calculated.

If you can't understand what that means thats like me saying "I don't know how much I can lift cause I never try to lift the most I can lift." and comparing my unknown limits to Hulks who's can't be calculated.

Thats not an argument thats a fanboy trying to make the most of an unspecified number.

Hamaru
03-12-2007, 08:04 PM
Did I say that Doomsday was weak? Did I say Cyclops could kill him? I think the answer is no to them both. You just make it seem as if Supes has no limet. The last post was to show that he does. Fact is that we know Supes limet but we do not know Cyclops's limet yet he still has a high feat. So how can you say Cycs is so much weaker when we don't know his limet?

Darklyre
03-12-2007, 08:21 PM
Because:

A - No limit fallacy.
B - All of his showings thus far have been weaker than Superman's.
C - Extrapolation of relative power levels.
D - The things they've used their respective vision powers on have had much different durabilities.

Vynjira
03-12-2007, 09:59 PM
Did I say that Doomsday was weak? Did I say Cyclops could kill him? I think the answer is no to them both.This is when one person corrupts an opponent's argument into something different, a "straw man" that they set up just to knock it down.I never said you did, I said specifically it doesn't prove anything. Which is This argument is similar to proof by example, but instead of simply citing an example, it describes the example in vivid detail, which makes people more likely to pay attention to it and think it is significant.You cited several details to make the statements seem more significant. They infact had nothing to do with the argument.

First you stated the Doomsday clones and Doomsday details that don't change that Superman's limits are incalculable. Nor does it change that Superman's heat vision has a million times more power thant Cyclops' beams. Then you attempted to corrupt my argument by saying I said Superman has no limits. I never said that, I said with a fraction of his power he was incalculable.You just make it seem as if Supes has no limet.The last post was to show that he does.This is when someone makes a claim and writes a long, often repetitive essay in order to prove it, when they really do not have very strong evidence whatsoever and are just trying to make their opponent accept their claim by barraging him with long, drawn - out writing.I never said I did. Your making very unfounded speculations.Fact is that we know Supes limet but we do not know Cyclops's limet yet he still has a high feat.This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).So how can you say Cycs is so much weaker when we don't know his limet?B - All of his showings thus far have been weaker than Superman's.Thats how.

lucky
03-13-2007, 02:29 AM
You just make it seem as if Supes has no limet. The last post was to show that he does. Fact is that we know Supes limet but we do not know Cyclops's limet yet he still has a high feat. So how can you say Cycs is so much weaker when we don't know his limet?


I can push a barrel along indefinitely, well beyond, say 5 miles. It will still be obliterated by a 2 ton boulder rolling along 5 meters in the same path in the opposite direction.




barrel (cyclops) ----------------------------><<<== Boulder (superman)


gg barrel.



As you can see, Cyclop's power is weaker and thin as opposed to superman's bold power. I say that because in the comic books, while great cyclop's optic blast showing are NO WHERE NEAR superman's heat vision showings.

Hamaru
03-13-2007, 12:07 PM
I think this guy gave the best answer.

I don't get it. How are they supposed to be measured?
Like, what does the most damage? Or if you took Cyclops and Supes, stuck them in a room facing each other and let 'em do their thing?
Supermans heat vision is like a drill that burns and cuts.
Cyclops' blast is like a really freaking hard punch, right?

In terms of damage done to an object... duh, Cyclops. Superman can cut it into a thousand tiny slices, but it would take him a minute. Cyclops can pulverize it with just a look.

But damage done to a person, Superman can cut you in half just by looking at you. In an instant you are very dead.
Cyclops can send you into a wall just by looking at you, but it's not as effective.

They aren't even the same power except to say that they're both red and they both come from the eyes and thus can't be generically compared like this. In different situations either can have the upper hand.

Vynjira
03-13-2007, 01:51 PM
I think this guy gave the best answer.This is when someone states that they personally believe something to be true, without providing any actual evidence.You think this guy gave the best answer.This kind of argument supposes that when there are two opposing viewpoints, the truth must lie somewhere in - between, ignoring the possibility that one of the viewpoints is simply wrong.The guy used a golden mean fallacy to say they are equally good just at different things ignoring the facts and differences in terms of power. If you need me to tear apart his answer then I will.

Your also expecting us to accept the that his argument is fact. When it seems to have multiple fallacies of its own. Seems like its an attempt to appeal to an authority who isn't an authority.

Darklyre
03-13-2007, 05:03 PM
I think this guy gave the best answer.

Superman's heat vision can be anywhere from microscopically focused to city-rape size. There's a reason he's said to be able to burn off an entire planet's atmosphere.

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